2 Safety Issues

[geoff m]

Hi all,

Thought it would be good opportunity for an update on 2 areas everyone can reduce risk.

1. Bike track behind airport on way home on Sundays.

There are three blind corners on an ever increasingly congested bicycle track. Please ensure that you form into single file before proceeding around these three bends. Last week we had a near head on collision with a bike coming the other way (they were on the correct side!). We almost had a crash several weeks ago. And a year or so ago, we had a head on collision for similar reasons.

Please always proceed around bends single file.

2. Its getting quite dark and will continue to do so until end of Daylight Savings in April.

Please make sure you have some form of lighting on the front and back of your bikes for 6.00 and 6.30am starts.

Thanks and happy and safer rider.

[weiyun]

Good address Geoff. I had to do some hard braking the moment I saw the upcoming rider. It was a little unexpected as our lead riders were riding side-by-side at the time with no words of warning passed down the line. I note that the rider from the other side ended up stopping and it's definitely not a good advertisement for our club. The other incident on Sun was when we overtook one of the other bunch in front (?SCC) near Engadine. It was a dangerous move where the lead riders didn't wait for the "over" call from the back and rushed around and our bunch got splintered, creating a danger to ourselves as well as to the bunch in front.

Maybe some of the new members weren't used to bunch riding or were too shy to call. Maybe the making and passing of calls can be emphasised in your weekly pre-ride address too.

BTW, I note that JamesC never rides the bike path. Given the ever increasing size of our bunch, maybe there's a time when we should just stay on the main road.

[T-Bone]

maybe there's a time when we should just stay on the main road.

I was thinking that on Sunday. Maybe it's time to stick to the road like on the way out.

As for the overtaking other groups, so,e of the situations really needed the front riders to just slow down a bit before starting the overtaking move, rather than just barging straight past, even when only overtaking 1 or 2 riders, as it's not good to cause accidents.

[weiyun]

Absolutely, it's very bad to cause accidents!

Sunday on the way out (around Princes Hwy), I remembered one of our new riders called out that he doesn't know the route when he moved to the lead... Maybe we should have some guidance in terms of how and when new riders can and should move to the lead? After all, there's a fair bit of responsibility given the size of our bunches these days. I understand that many bunches require new riders to stay at the rear and need to roll back immediately should they get to the front.

[williamd]

I think the bike track is safe if in single file.

We arn't on the bike track for a great distance.

I was on the bike track on Saturday. there were all these female rider going from Crunulla to Homebush Bay. I ended up fixing 2 flat tyres for 2 female riders. I got a chance to tested my new pump out. So there are some benefits.

[geoff m]

If we keep single file on the bike track we should be OK. Its kind of nice warming down by this route. Good PR for the club as well with passing bikes if we behave ourselves.

As our numbers get larger, the road will probably become more appealing.

Maybe when we get a big group next time, we can try out return by road.

[jimmy]

There is a problem with returning via the road the way that I go. The right turn from Bestic Street onto West Botany Rd.

This is a right hand turn at what is typically a red light (so you will be forced to stop) on a hill. There is no dedicated filter, so you need to find a gap through the oncomming traffic (usually pretty light). This means that the bunch will probably splinter here.

I think that it is safer and better for most of the club to continue to use the bike path. However, it may be a good idea for some of the stronger/more experienced riders to go the same way I do as it would reduce the size of the group going along the bike path.

James

[Stuart]

I'm fairly new to the Waterfall ride, having only done it 4 times but I had done slowies quite a lot beforehand. I have to say that even when I started slowies 18 months ago there was no instruction on calls or group riding. I had no idea what to expect or what the calls were and who should be giving them. There was mostly an experienced front rider and sweeper but that's not always the case. After a while you pick it up (mostly) but it does take time and in that time accidents could happen.

Maybe we need an article on this site explaining the calls and the procedures for group riding (or a link to one of somebody has already done it)? I also agree that newbies should stay at the back but procedures are not always clear and sometimes you just find yourself in the wrong place when just starting out. I know I had no idea how to pull out of the pack safely or even which side I should move to when we hit the James Cook bridge and I was holding people up behind me.

Another possibility would be to include some pack riding instruction out at Centennial as part of slowies where newbies and especially riders thinking of going on the Waterfall ride could get a couple of laps of instruction, including calls, hand signals, positioning and etiquette from the experienced riders.

Lastly, I think using the bike path is a better option due to the time of day and increased traffic but agree we need to stay single file around those corners.

[weiyun]

There are a lot written up on bunch riding techniques on the net, including one from our buddy club, RBCC. A quick Google would find you more.

http://www.randwickbotanycc.com/bunch%20riding.htm

http://www.roadgrime.com.au/home/index. ... 2008-01-01

http://www.tourdownunder.com.au/2007/si ... heet06.pdf

Well worth looking through and putting them into practice. If you have questions, just ask and observe.

Captain Cook Br, similarly the hill up to Kings Way turn-off, are tough ones. A number of us likes to put in a push on those short risers (traffic permitting) to gain a bit more training points. However, that's wrong from a strict bunch riding etiquette's point of view as the lead riders need to keep the pace even and not fracture the bunch.

However, this also brings up another point. What's the purpose of these Waterfall rides for DHBC? Is it a social club ride with pace adapted to the slowest rider, to advertise the club in one unified bunch? Or is it a true training ride that would allow members to ride at a pace that'll provide tempo training benefits? Is pushing everyone to the limit desirable? Or is staying in one bunch all the way preferred?

[mikesbytes]

Seems that taking the road trades one problem for another.

Looks like we might as well keep to the path and be anti social for a couple of minutes, riding single file.

[christian]

I thought the Waterfall ride was a training ride, thats how I treat it. Saturday is the social ride. For the days when we get a lot of people for Waterfall we could always split into two bunches from the start. On the other hand its good for inexperienced riders to ride with a big bunch to get the experience.

I think its always going to be hard to keep the bunch together on the tough hills, like the Capt Cook bridge (mainly north bound) and the hill up to the Kingsway, the less strong riders are always going to struggle.

One option is to keep it all together until we get to Sutherland including the hills, then split up into as many groups as required, which usually happens anyway, but maybe plan it so its a little more organised. This way the Sutherland Waterfall section can be where you get to push yourself.

[paul]

Another awkward moment on Sunday's ride was when the bunch was passed by another big group just on the fast LH coner as we came onto The Grand Parade in Ramsgate. This meant that both lanes were filled with the two bunches. At the same time a blue ford was trying to merge from the right. One rider (not sure which club) gave the driver a mouthfull and the finger. Perhaps he didn't see, but the driver was an elderly lady, and I think she was confused about what to do rather than hostile or pushy.

Sydney City CC have an excellent primer on bunch etiquette.

http://www.sydneycyclingclub.org.au/Etiquette.pdf

Paul

[mikesbytes]

Paul do you mean on the way back turning left from Sandringham st into The Grand pde?

[weiyun]

Yes, I remember that episode also. Overtaking on a corner with the size of their bunch should have been a no no.

It's good that we are getting a debrief of these episodes as it allows us to be more aware next time.

[T-Bone]

I don't think it was a dangerous place to overtake as they had taken the other lane already, it's just that it was a big bunch, so waiting for the tailend took a while. We get overtaken by cars on that corner, so i don't see much of an issue, you just have to stay in your lane as you usually would.

The turning car on the other hand just had to wait as it would have to if there was a long line of cars. Not sure if they were just impatient or what was going on as i didn't get a good look, but anyway, the bunch had the right of way.

[weiyun]

True, but what happened was that their riders started to squeeze into our lane when the car appeared. Given it was a corner, it was harder for the riders at the rear of their bunch to see far enough ahead to anticipate that merging vehicle.

[mikesbytes]

So the driver decided to simply barge in?

[weiyun]

So the driver decided to simply barge in?

No, she stopped hesitantly and was just over the dotted line in the turning bay of a traffic island.

The problem was that it was a left hand sweeping turn and our distant view to the right was blocked by the overtaking bunch in the right lane. Some of their riders suddenly drifted towards us as we entered that medium speed turn. If there was a touch, then you can imagine there'd be multiple rows of riders four abreast smashing into the same pile, with no escape for anyone on two sides. Not smart.

[Stuart]

Thanks for all the bunch riding links - very useful except some say one thing and some another when it comes to moving out of the pack and also the calls to use. Personally I try avoid the front and the very back at all times in the bunch and only expect to be in the bunch till Capt Cook bridge on the Waterfall ride as I know that most of the riders are way above my level. I never expect the main bunch to wait as I know it's a training ride for most of the riders and I always get dropped going Sth up Tarren Point Rd - by everybody!

Still, being in the bunch for that first 16k's or so is great experience and a real buzz - it's got me excited about cycling in a way that slowies never would.

Lindsay has suggested to Joanne a "slowies Sunday" group to leave Marrickville at 06:15 so that we get a head start and I think that's a good idea although I would miss riding in the bunch till the bridge. Maybe this Sunday 16th we can kick it off? I'll ask Lindsay on Sat at slowies.

Meanwhile - what do you all say about moving out of the bunch - I would have thought that its safest to move to the side you are on if there are two lines rather than both to the left, one after the other?

[weiyun]

Basically with 2 abreast, you just peel off to the sides and let the bunch ride through b/n you and your partner.

For calls, point out whatever you see that may be hazardous. Making the correct call near traffic lights is most critical.

Don't give up. Soon you'll be able to stay with the bunch all the way. It just take time and persistence.

[mikesbytes]

Stuart, what you could do is go with the 6.15am bunch and when the 6.30 bunch catches up, probably after Sutherland, then jump to that bunch

[micklan]

No, she stopped hesitantly and was just over the dotted line in the turning bay of a traffic island.

The problem was that it was a left hand sweeping turn and our distant view to the right was blocked by the overtaking bunch in the right lane. Some of their riders suddenly drifted towards us as we entered that medium speed turn. If there was a touch, then you can imagine there'd be multiple rows of riders four abreast smashing into the same pile, with no escape for anyone on two sides. Not smart.

That's how I saw it too Weiyun. Geoff remarked to me earlier when we passed the SCC bunch heading sth, that they were almost too big a bunch. Indeed they caught us on that turn at BLS and were not all fully past us until the next set of traffic lights. That is an odd merging lane/bay, one where you can actually wait for cars to pass you on your left prior to moving left into the right overtaking lane as it were. 9 out of 10 times there won't be a car merging there when you pass on a Sunday - last sunday the moons aligned = car merging, two full lanes of bikes round a 90 degree turn in the road, cars parked on left lane (sometimes there are no cars parked there). This was an elderly driver that's all, she really didn't know what to do and slowly plodded into the lane., she merged into the middle of the SSC riders. As they passed, I remarked - that was messy and the rider next to me, (didn't get his name) - said that was awesome (such a large bunch on the move), and indeed it was, a big bunch and we preceded on, no mishaps, Fred leading the way, outstanding.

I reckon keep the bunch together as long as we can. It works pretty well now. No Waterfall ride is ever the same...

[geoff m]

I was in our bunch with the incident with the driver right in front of me by 10 metres.

I'm not sure there is a 100% right answer here (except for one thing - will get to that).

We were riding in a bunch with about 200metres to go before we came to the edge of Botany Bay when a large Easts bunch decided to overtake us at a reasonable pace. They were about half way through the overtaking when both bunches took the sharp corner, keeping within our respective lanes within safety (as far as I could see). Meanwhile an elderly lady in an old tank decided to join the road from the right (the road we turn left into as we leave the Botany Bay when travelling in the opposite direction in the morning).

The entry point was its own lane for about 30 metres before it merged into the two lane main road we were on, but with give way lines, clearly marked, for entering vehicles.

Despite this, she decided to just barge in and keep going, expecting the two lanes of four abreast cyclists (who can legally overtake each other) to give way to her. She didn't only drive on the edge of the give way line, but crossed it, into the outside lane of the main road, cutting right into the Easts bunch. It was like a car crossing straight into a semi-trailer, except the semi trailer was made up of human lives on bikes in a bunch.

The cyclists who veered out her way and who crossed into our lane, did so simply to avoid dying.

One guy showed a bit of emotion to her.

She replied with honking her horn. Clearly she was bewildered as to why the cyclists were upset with her.

I can say with 100% certainty that this was one of the most dangerous car manouvers I have witnessed.

Remember, cycling is a dangerous recreation activity. This is a reminder.

Lastly, I thought that the actions of Easts in this case was well executed in their overtaking. They, like us, knew this piece of road and the regular areas where there were parked cars on the left side. This was one of the stretches with the most distance and with plenty of lane room including the bend (but not enought for an extra car of course). We regularly go around this bend with cars on the outside lane doing 50kms per hour.

They also kept a healthy overtaking pace about 5 kms per hour faster.

One Easts rider came back with us for coffee at Bobos and confirmed that he felt the overtaking was safely calculated.

That's the perspective from my viewpoint, which may have not seen the full picture (except for the car merging. That was in front of me).

[mikesbytes]

SCC isn't usually a large bunch, was there another club there too?

[geoff m]

Was not SCC but Easts.

[mikesbytes]

Sorry Geoff, I should of refreshed before posting.

So I'm gathering that the bunch DH overtook earlier wasn't Easts?

[T-Bone]

The bunch we overtook was on the way out.

I didn't really have any problems with them overtaking, or with them entering our lane slightly as i'm used to having to squash a large number of riders into a small area from racing. However, i can understand how it could worry a newer rider. As Geoff said, the problem was the car, not the other bunch.

[weiyun]

True that it was theoretically correct by the rule books. But no different to driving a car, overtaking around a corner is always more dangerous than in the straight. So the issue here is whether one is riding defensively or riding by the rules.

[geoff m]

True that it was theoretically correct by the rule books. But no different to driving a car, overtaking around a corner is always more dangerous than in the straight. So the issue here is whether one is riding defensively or riding by the rules.

Whilst not always possible, its always good to ride more defensively to reduce risks.

One way to do that is to reduce size of bunches once they get too big as it reduces time to pass, time through changing lights, and less people, likely to cause a fall for other behind. No doubt we will consider these issues as our our club bunches start to grow.

[weiyun]

Agreed. It would have been very difficult for the leaders of their bunch to decide where and when to make their overtaking maneuver. That set of lights at the corner of W Botany and Marsh St near the airport is the classic one. Even with our relatively short bunch, the rear always get caught by the yellow or a bit of red.

[micklan]

I can say with 100% certainty that this was one of the most dangerous car manouvers I have witnessed.
Lastly, I thought that the actions of Easts in this case was well executed in their overtaking. They also kept a healthy overtaking pace about 5 kms per hour faster.

Apologies got the club name wrong. I've never seen two groups of riders pass on that corner. It was very well handled given the conditions.