How Fasties Works: Further to the April Newsletter

Road cycling & upcoming rides
wallman
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Postby wallman » 10 Apr 2013, 16:10

I thought I might add a few specifics to the mention of the Fasties paceline protocol in the April newsletter. It's been good to have a larger bunch recently and to be able to relax and take some longer breaks on the trip down, but there's a few things that probably need to be addressed to ensure everyone's safe and content to remain with the bunch throughout the ride and we don't revert to the smashfest we've seen in times past.

- With the exception of the Waterfall - Sutherland section the bunch rides paired, just like schoolkids on excursion. Note that we don't expect you to hold hands. When you and your partner have finished your turn at the front, you roll off either to the right or left of the bunch and go all the way to the back. You do not rotate anti-clockwise as some other bunches in the club do.
- This means that you may very occasionally find yourself paired with a stronger rider who may or may not be feeling charitable. While this is unfortunate, please do as much as you can and then roll - off as per the above. It is likely that your partner will rejoin you after rolling-off as per the below.
- The points at which the front pair rolls off are pretty well defined: far end of Bestic, far end of Grand Parade, start of Kingsway, Sutherland station, and about here things start to get a bit ragged but maybe then Engadine and Heathcote. Try and judge your effort accordingly. Do not smash out 500 metres and then disappear.
- If you are on the front you should be watching for change of lights and calling "rolling" or "stopping" as soon as they change.
- You should be holding your position when we come to a stop at the lights i.e. you should not be pulling up adjacent to the pair in front of you.
- People will be out of the saddle from lights. In Fasties this is not called sprinting, it's called accelerating from a stop. Try to keep up.
- In this bunch paceline protocol should be second nature. There are plenty of paceline guides available to you if it's not, read them and know them. This has been a bit of a shambles. If you are at or over your limit and feel unable to participate safely or smoothly then please sit on.
- The last section of the Waterfall - Sutherland leg will be fast and competitive, if you are not prepared to commit fully to it then please sit on. Note that this may mean providing others with a leadout which is in the interests of the safety of the group as a whole.

And since I haven't said anything objectionable to the longtime fasties riders above, I'll add something now for discussion purposes...I don't think fixies should be allowed to participate in the Waterfall - Sutherland leg. They are not geared to high enough to complete the trip and their braking performance is poor.

timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 10 Apr 2013, 17:43

Thanks for this. It highlights some of the areas I struggle with when riding with the Fasties. The turns on the front are longer and harder, the starts from the lights so much faster, and there is always someone stronger who is willing to hurt you. But this is fun of fasties. Knowing how far a turn lasts will be a help.
Also what is the protocol when dropping back from the front? Last weekend I let people rotating back slide back in front of me. Is it expected that I roll past, or is it up to the riders on the day?

wallman
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Postby wallman » 10 Apr 2013, 17:53


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Michael Chidgey
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Postby Michael Chidgey » 11 Apr 2013, 15:16


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Trouty
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Postby Trouty » 12 Apr 2013, 05:14

I've never made it far enough with the fasties for the return paceline at Waterfall......but if I'm riding in a middies group pace line with 2 fasties in it, surely I can count that? Ah technicalities shmallities, I'm taking it...if only to make myself feel better. Great to see the fasties group grow, some weeks over winter it was like 2 or 3 riders.

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jimmy
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Postby jimmy » 12 Apr 2013, 08:25


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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 12 Apr 2013, 09:39

Just curious, aren't all these observations the same requirement for all bunches, from Slowies to Fasties? Has riders not learnt all these bunch riding basics during their progression through the bunches? Something amiss?

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JoTheBuilder
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Postby JoTheBuilder » 12 Apr 2013, 10:23

Essentially yes, Weiyun. However, the club is growing so quickly now that it has become more difficult to monitor every rider to determine whether they are 'allowed' to ride up the bunches. What we are finding is that we have some riders who are very strong and quick, but don't necessarily have the bunch experience that the fasties and middies are expected to have. Riders like Matt, Christian, John and Alex (the regular fasties) have years of experience and yet some riders who join them may have only been riding for 6-12 months (if that). But as we see different people at the cafe every week, it's difficult to know whether someone is or isn't suited to ride with the fasties. It's not enough to just be a strong rider as most people think, you have to have the etiquette required aswell.

Of course, a lot of people who do ride with these groups do not necessarily read the forum.

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JoTheBuilder
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Postby JoTheBuilder » 12 Apr 2013, 10:26

Conversely, if we don't let these stronger riders ride up, then we get problem...

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weiyun
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Postby weiyun » 12 Apr 2013, 14:53

Thanks Jo. I've been following and is aware of the growing pains in our club bunches. Well, it's good to see the Fasties finally formalising into a consistent club bunch.

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Simon Llewellyn
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Postby Simon Llewellyn » 12 Apr 2013, 19:24

Having ridden my way through the bunches over the last few months I found it very confusing why the fasties have a different rotating pattern to other bunches. Whilst I am well aware of the history and reasoning for this I think the club should have universal rules. It makes for a lot of confusion, not a problem regular fasties would face.

timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 12 Apr 2013, 21:16


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Eleri
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Postby Eleri » 12 Apr 2013, 21:44

The reason we changed the rotation for C25s and C28s was because rotating off the front as the fasties do was clearly unsafe. People coming off the front especially in the C25s weren't sufficiently skilled to roll off safely. We often had people on the wrong side of the centre line and getting stuck in the gutter.

The middies just adopted that style as people moved up.

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Nozzle
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Postby Nozzle » 12 Apr 2013, 21:52

Yeah agree that I was originally taught to roll off the front together. Never personally liked the rolling rotation thAt is in vogue but it seems to be here to stay in the Middies and lower. Most other clubs are the same as the fasties.

timyone
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Postby timyone » 12 Apr 2013, 23:57

:0 no fixies! Simon once won the sprint on one! But yeah I usually get dropped along the way back

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Trouty
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Postby Trouty » 13 Apr 2013, 09:55


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JoTheBuilder
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Postby JoTheBuilder » 13 Apr 2013, 15:43

Plus the fact that it means you have lots of different people to talk to and are not stuck talking to the same person for the whole ride! :-)

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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 13 Apr 2013, 17:40


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Eleri
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Postby Eleri » 13 Apr 2013, 18:13

Well if I ride fasties, which I intend to make further attempts, anyone who wants to talk to me in the ride had better get in early and be prepared to carry the conversation. :-)

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Philip
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Postby Philip » 13 Apr 2013, 18:53

If you're talking you're not working hard enough! ;)

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Stuart
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Postby Stuart » 13 Apr 2013, 20:04


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Nozzle
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Postby Nozzle » 13 Apr 2013, 21:15


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Karzie
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Postby Karzie » 13 Apr 2013, 22:53


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Adrian E
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Postby Adrian E » 15 Apr 2013, 16:14

On Sunday we had one of the largest fasties bunch in sometime (as least 20 maybe more). I thought the much worked pretty darn well. I was always used to fastie way of rolling off the front and I still prefer it that way.

As I've already mentioned, I'm not a huge fan of big pacelines on the way back from Waterfall. I hate it when non club riders tack on and I don't like the narrow section of road/shoulder lane before the sutho sprint. On Sunday we split into two groups on the way back to sutherland. The group I went with took it easier on the way back and focused on developing smooth paceline skills.

I'm keen to make than an option for all fasties bunches, particularly if they've very large and have a number of new riders.

Ollie-c
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Postby Ollie-c » 15 Apr 2013, 16:58

I rode on Sunday with the fasties after a bit of a hiatus from riding with the club and was generally impressed with the bunch ettiquete and skills on display.
The roll aways front the front were mostly very tidy, and there was only one bad call I saw come from the front (switching back to the left lane in front of a garbage truck along the grand parade, which was communicated immediately).

Mainly I wanted mainly to echo Adrian's comments about splitting the pacelines on the way back from Waterfall. Invariably the bunch picks up random non club riders (particularly if it is large to begin with), and communication becomes difficult. Two smaller groups reduces the risks and forces those club riders who might just hang onto the back of a large paceline to develop their skills and roll through. I would certainly be keen to see this practice supported if the fasties continues its growth.

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jimmy
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Postby jimmy » 16 Apr 2013, 09:26

So when does a fasties+ get formed? you do realise that is going to be the inevitable end to this, it doesn't get easier, you just go faster.

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Dougie
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Postby Dougie » 16 Apr 2013, 09:46


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mikesbytes
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Postby mikesbytes » 16 Apr 2013, 10:00

Does the + relate to the amount of coffees consumed?

shrubb face
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Postby shrubb face » 16 Apr 2013, 11:50

We could make a fasties + now but contrary to popular belief its not always fun smashing yourself every Sunday.

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Trouty
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Postby Trouty » 16 Apr 2013, 12:50


timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 16 Apr 2013, 19:30


timyone
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Postby timyone » 17 Apr 2013, 11:40

I would be much more likely to ride fasties if it was an even fast bunch, and not just a smaller group trying to crack people. So the plus idea is good, then all the people who are into the idea of a bunch that rides like a break away can ride in it :)

jcaley
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Postby jcaley » 03 May 2013, 10:38

I was looking to research bunch etiquette having never done any of the Waterfall rides but found the link to it on the DHBC Website road page needs to be corrected as it returns a 404 error.
The link in the April Newsletter to the Sydney Cycling Club ride etiquette guide PDF is good.
Correct link is
http://sydneycyclingclub.org.au/wp-cont ... -Book1.pdf
Can someone pass this on to the webmeister so it can be updated?


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