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2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 04 Mar 2016, 17:10
by mikesbytes
In 2015 we ran the first of the annual DHBC Individual Time Trial (ITT) championship's at Calga and all involved had a great time.

This year its on again, the date has been set for the first Sunday in August, ie the 7th, so lock that date in your calendar and come on out.

For those who have never raced, this is about as safe as it gets as your racing by yourself and you don't need a race license, the ride-it license is fine.

Your Host's are Marc and myself. There are also quite a few who have done the ITT in the past and can provide some interesting info at coffee time.

Stay tuned for more info or pop your questions in the thread.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 04 Mar 2016, 17:15
by weller
Nice work Mike!

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 07 Mar 2016, 09:55
by Neilm
Yep I will give it a crack again

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 18 May 2016, 21:43
by Dave_Ranx
keen!

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 19 May 2016, 09:05
by Adam W
These are coming up too if anyone is looking for a practice run closer to home in Kurnell.
Got some dates. Source: http://www.cronullatriclub.com.au/Asset ... lendar.xls

Saturday 11/06/2016
Saturday 23/07/2016
Saturday 20/08/2016
Saturday 17/09/2016
Saturday 15/10/2016

According to the spreadsheet, these times aren't confirmed though.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 19 May 2016, 16:38
by croftben
Im keen :)

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 25 May 2016, 14:10
by jhnhtt
Awesome, last time was a good laugh!

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 25 May 2016, 16:10
by Neilm
I hope you get johns handicap right this time

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 25 May 2016, 18:01
by weller
Just a note on the TT "handicapping" - the results are not based on handicapping per se, but on the aged based standardised times ATTA have been (and still are) collecting over the past years. The average time curves that have been developed are based on one year age intervals (split male and female) with the premise being times gradually decrease the older you get.

So if you take James Bernard's results from May - he rode 36:46 with a standardised time of +2:02
That means he rode the course 2:02 minutes faster than the average of all the previous male riders (over a number of years) at his age. Even though he had the fastest race time, he was beaten in standardised time by the fellow (Mark Long) who came 4th on race time - he would have been older than James and thus gets a bigger time bonus. His standardised time of +4:48 thus makes him the winner. (BTW if the number is negative, you have come in slower than the average).

So the older you get, your standardised time compensation is improved.

Hope that helps!

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 25 May 2016, 18:23
by Neilm
its does thanx

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 25 May 2016, 20:13
by LML
I'm very interested.
How can I get more info on the event?

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 25 May 2016, 22:17
by mikesbytes
I'm very interested.
How can I get more info on the event?
Have a look at their web site http://atta.asn.au/

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Jul 2016, 15:42
by mikesbytes
We have a prize for the retro riders, a seven speed screw on retro disc, even comes with a single

The winner will be drawn out of a hat. To be eligible for the draw you need;
1. To race in the DHBC ITT champs on Sunday the 7th August
2. The bike you ride in the champs is a retro bike. The definition of a retro bike is any bike that Marc considers to be a retro bike :)

Image

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Jul 2016, 16:27
by Neilm
can we burn Marc`s skin suit

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Jul 2016, 17:12
by marc2131
Neil. Burn my super tight, body hugging and super sexy skin suit for reasons of aesthetic decency or to hinder my aero advantage?

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Jul 2016, 18:25
by Neilm
well i was told by my therapist that i wasnt allowed to do it again if you were still wearing it

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 07 Jul 2016, 09:36
by marc2131
well i was told by my therapist that i wasnt allowed to do it again if you were still wearing it
Neil
Your therapist is going to have a hard time catching me. I'll be wearing my super slippery DHBC skin suit.
Here is a sneak-peek of what you guys can expect.
:wink:

Image

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 21 Jul 2016, 10:03
by marc2131
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam (either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT)

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 21 Jul 2016, 10:49
by frank3dot0
Sounds fun!

A few questions

Closed roads? Strava of course from last year? Open to other clubs?

Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max

side note: If we burn Marc's skin suit, what will he race in then? *turns away*

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 21 Jul 2016, 10:58
by marc2131
Course map (25km) and profile can be view here: http://www.atta.asn.au/maps/calga.html

Google map here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Peats ... .235?hl=en

Remember we are only doing the 25km route. The roads aren't closed but traffic is minimal. Yes, as an ATTA event it will be open to other clubs, but they won't be included in the final ranking for the DHBC ITT results.

BTW, hands off my skinsuit :wink:

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 21 Jul 2016, 11:00
by marc2131
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 21 Jul 2016, 11:09
by jcaley
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 21 Jul 2016, 12:27
by weller
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 21 Jul 2016, 15:33
by mikesbytes
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo
5. Michael Clement - 2007 Orbea Ordu

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trail Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 23 Jul 2016, 19:50
by marc2131
STOP PRESS!
A new prize category will be contested at this years ITT event - 'Personal Best'. This award will recognise the greatest improvement over their previous PB at Calga. A $50 voucher from a cycle shop located in Ashfield will be given to the winning rider. Only riders who have done the 25km Calga course previously (times recorded with ATTA) can participate in this category.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 24 Jul 2016, 16:23
by Eleri
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo
5. Michael Clement - 2007 Orbed Urdu
6. Eleri Morgan-Thomas - 2013 Baum Corretto (nothing retro here and my PB set on a tandem so ...)
7. Michael O'Reilly - 20xx Hillbrick.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 24 Jul 2016, 18:52
by mikesbytes
Cool

Eleri, I'll have to get your PB fixed on ATTA

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 24 Jul 2016, 23:39
by Jdubs
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo
5. Michael Clement - 2007 Orbed Urdu
6. Eleri Morgan-Thomas - 2013 Baum Corretto (nothing retro here and my PB set on a tandem so ...)
7. Michael O'Reilly - 20xx Hillbrick.
8. Jonathan Wong - 199x Clamont 700 - Shimano 105/600 8 speed or 19xx Columbus xxxx (no name) with Dura ace 10 speed.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 05:19
by marc2131
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo
5. Michael Clement - 2007 Orbed Urdu
6. Eleri Morgan-Thomas - 2013 Baum Corretto (nothing retro here and my PB set on a tandem so ...)
7. Michael O'Reilly - 20xx Hillbrick.
8. Jonathan Wong - 199x Clamont 700 - Shimano 105/600 8 speed or 19xx Columbus xxxx (no name) with Dura ace 10 speed.
9. Ron Webster - 1960s JC Higgins, 10 speed.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 14:06
by weller
I've entered as I wanted a relatively early start time.

2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 16:01
by ratzzzzz
Is it the 25 or 43km?

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 26 Jul 2016, 16:14
by marc2131
25km only.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 29 Jul 2016, 12:17
by Dave_Maywald
Hi guys, I'm keen to join. Most likely on a 2015 Trek Domane. Is there a webpage to register for the ride? Regards, Dave

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 29 Jul 2016, 13:30
by mikesbytes
Hi guys, I'm keen to join. Most likely on a 2015 Trek Domane. Is there a webpage to register for the ride? Regards, Dave
You only need to register if you want a specific start time slot. Add your name to the list and your ready to rock'n'roll

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 29 Jul 2016, 18:21
by Razoir
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo
5. Michael Clement - 2007 Orbed Urdu
6. Eleri Morgan-Thomas - 2013 Baum Corretto (nothing retro here and my PB set on a tandem so ...)
7. Michael O'Reilly - 20xx Hillbrick.
8. Jonathan Wong - 199x Clamont 700 - Shimano 105/600 8 speed or 19xx Columbus xxxx (no name) with Dura ace 10 speed.
9. Ron Webster - 1960s JC Higgins, 10 speed.
10. Ray Patton...The Mick Mazza...like the man himself the provenance is enigmatic

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 13:08
by mikesbytes
Location is Peats Ridge rd, there's a map in the following link

http://www.atta.asn.au/maps/calga.html#dh

Image

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 30 Jul 2016, 16:19
by marc2131
Mike and I will be at Calga from 7.30am. The trip from the Inner West should take an hour.
Here is a link to Google maps showing the start point. My mobile no. Is 0426 897247 if u get into difficulty.
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/@-33.51 ... alia?hl=en

The latest one can register for a race slot is 9 am. Fee for each rider is $25.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 13:09
by mikesbytes
BTW anyone in the club can enter the time trial, you don't need a race license to ride at Calga

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 13:42
by jcaley
Bro is planning to ride the half course. i.e. 12.5 km

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 01 Aug 2016, 16:08
by Dave_Maywald
Attendees list for the DHBC 2016 ITT competition: (name and type of bike)

1. Marc Rerceretnam - either a 1985 Raleigh Panasonic or a 1985 Rossin Cronos TT
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo
5. Michael Clement - 2007 Orbed Urdu
6. Eleri Morgan-Thomas - 2013 Baum Corretto (nothing retro here and my PB set on a tandem so ...)
7. Michael O'Reilly - 20xx Hillbrick.
8. Jonathan Wong - 199x Clamont 700 - Shimano 105/600 8 speed or 19xx Columbus xxxx (no name) with Dura ace 10 speed.
9. Ron Webster - 1960s JC Higgins, 10 speed.
10. Ray Patton...The Mick Mazza...like the man himself the provenance is enigmatic
11. David Maywald - 2015 Trek Domane

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 02 Aug 2016, 15:18
by mikesbytes
If someone wants a lift, then I've got one available spot

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 04 Aug 2016, 11:34
by frank3dot0
weatherzone tells me 70% chance of rain on Sunday.. will there be a post on Facebook at a certain time to make a final call that this goes ahead or not?

*Fingers crossed*

Please lock me in for the earliest start time (well second behind Marc)

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 04 Aug 2016, 21:45
by mikesbytes
Forecast at the moment is looking better;
Possible rainfall: 0 to 2 mm
However that 0 to 2mm of rain is predicted for the afternoon, so if the forecast runs true, then we will be dry in the morning

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 05 Aug 2016, 18:41
by Eleri
I'm a late withdrawal due to a family visit this weekend.
Michael O'Reilly out too bcoz sick (and no lift from me, but mostly sick)

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 05 Aug 2016, 20:53
by mikesbytes
I'm able to give one person a lift. I'll be leaving home at 6am

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Aug 2016, 13:10
by marc2131
This post has been deleted. See updated message below.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Aug 2016, 13:23
by frank3dot0
See ya'll bright and early

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Aug 2016, 13:34
by marc2131
The weather looks clear for Sunday morning. Light winds only. Mike and Marc will be there from 7.30am.
ATTA registration closes at 9am at Calga. Remember to register early to get an early start. For location details look above.

1. Marc Rerceretnam -1985 Raleigh Panasonic TT, DuraAce 6 cog/12 spd.
2. Francisco Arraiza - 2015 Focus Izalco Max
3. John Caley - Steel frame from the 60s that Lindsay found me. groupset from 2015
4. Craig Weller - 2012 Cervelo
5. Michael Clement - 2007 Orbed Urdu
6. Jonathan Wong - 199x Clamont 700 - Shimano 105/600 8 speed or 19xx Columbus xxxx (no name) with Dura ace 10 speed.
7. Ron Webster - 1960s JC Higgins, 10 speed.
8. Ray Patton - 1970s Mick Mazza road bike...like the man himself the provenance is enigmatic
9. David Maywald - 2015 Trek Domane

1st Prize will be the DHBC ITT cup and a $50 voucher from a cycle shop in Ashfield (est 1978) ;) Retro riders will be in the draw for a circa 1987 Wolber Discjet disc wheel. GOOD LUCK EVERYONE.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 06 Aug 2016, 13:53
by jcaley
Can someone loan me a set of clip-on TT bars to suit the older handlebar diameter?

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 07 Aug 2016, 05:41
by mikesbytes
No rain at all for Calga this morning, its going to be a dry run. http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDR714.loop.shtml#skip

Its not to late to enter if you want, put the bike on the car and drive on up

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 07 Aug 2016, 20:06
by marc2131
Photos from today's 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial (25km) held at ATTA's Calga event.
Results to be announced soon.
We had 9 participants (25km) on the day and 10 if you count Bro who did the 12km event.

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Rod Isaacs, Roger Webber, Mike Clement, Frank Arraiza, Ron Webster, Ray Patton, John & Bro Caley & Marc Rerceretnam (Craig Weller left early)

Image
Frank and Mike drawing the winner of the circa 1987 Wolber Discjet disc wheel.

Image

Image
Rod Isaacs at the finish.

Image
Ray Patton waltzing across the finish line

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Ron Webster hammering it at the finish

Image

Image
Roger Webber checking Strava

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 07 Aug 2016, 22:46
by frank3dot0
Awesome photos, awesome day! Looking forward to the next one.

Time to start training

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 08 Aug 2016, 10:08
by jcaley
Mostly steel bikes this year from DHBC. Hopefully next year we can avoid a clash with any events the DHBC racing team are attending. The ATTA results are here. Happy with my PB.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 08 Aug 2016, 10:29
by Razoir
Thanks Marc and Mike...really enjoyed it...

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 08 Aug 2016, 11:36
by weller
Hey great work Roger! That was a bloody good effort - Nice to hand over the trophy to a worthy recipient!!

Sorry, I had to shoot off, had a commitment I could not avoid (for fear of losing some parts of my body). It was a good day for TT'ing, cool but not cold with a mild breeze. I was 4 secs off my PB - even with a horror stretch up blood hill (god I hate that hill), but nowhere near the performance of Roger.

In regards to competitors, the more the merrier I reckon - however, in regards to clashes, its difficult to predict as CNSW changed dates later in the piece.

Thanks to Mark & Mike for pulling the event together!

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 08 Aug 2016, 16:59
by marc2131
Craig Weller retains his title as DHBC ITT champ!
Congrats Craig.

1st: Craig Weller
2nd: John Caley
3rd: Michael Clement
4th: Frank Arraiza
5th: Marc Rerceretnam

Other category results will be announced within a day or so.

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 08 Aug 2016, 17:05
by mikesbytes
I'm compiling the data, there a couple of oddities with the handicaps, so I'm going to double check the data when I get back from work later tonight. Provisional result shows Craig winning by 2mins 39seconds - a convincing championship win

Several riders did a PB and are entitled to a free entry in September

BTW Marc won the disk wheel

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 09 Aug 2016, 16:25
by mikesbytes
Appologies for being slow on getting this up, life's busy

Times recorded (25k);
Craig Weller 0:38:18
John Caley 0:40:21
Francisco Arraiza 0:41:04
Michael Clement 0:42:38
Marc Rerceretman 0:45:14
Keith Winsor 0:45:29
Rodney Isaacs 0:47:40
Roger Webber 0:49:03
Raymond Patton 0:49:03
Ronald Webster 0:57:26

Broughton Caley was also there and did the 12.5k course as he wanted to simulate his upcoming championship 0:18:52

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 09 Aug 2016, 16:45
by mikesbytes
DHBC ITT championships
1. Craig Weller +4:18
2. John Caley +1:39
3. Michael Clement +0:10
4. Francisco Arraiza -2:16
5. Marc Rerceretman -2:50
6. Rodney Isaacs -4:28
7. Raymond Patton -4:58
8. Keith Winsor -5:29
9. Roger Webber -6:51
10. Ronald Webster -9:21

That's 2 years with Craig, he's on fire

I'll post the Personal Best results tomorrow

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 10 Aug 2016, 07:29
by mikesbytes
Congratulations to Ronald Webster for winning the Personal Best category

1. Ronald Webster -35
2. John Caley -2
3. Marc Rerceretman -1
4. Craig Weller +4
5. Broughton Caley +6
6. Michael Clement +230
7. Keith Winsor +269

Ron, John and Marc also qualify for free entry at Calga next month

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 10 Aug 2016, 15:31
by jcaley
Thanks Mike. Just curious - did Roger's comparison time change from +6:51 as per ATTA results to -6.51?

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 10 Aug 2016, 19:43
by Strawburger
Cracking ride Craig, well done!

Great stuff to all riders too, TT's are never easy

Re: 2016 DHBC Individual Time Trial Championship Sunday 7th August

Posted: 10 Aug 2016, 21:00
by mikesbytes
Thanks Mike. Just curious - did Roger's comparison time change from +6:51 as per ATTA results to -6.51?
There was an error on the data sheet we received. Standard time for Rogers age is currently calculating out at 42.12 which means to have done +6.51 he would of had to ridden the 25k in 35.21. This is in part why it took me so long to put out the results as I had to go over them carefully looking for bugs.

The errors the ATTA guys make are usually small ones like that, which are usually unimportant, however in this case their data shows Roger as the winner, when Craig actually bet him by 10.59 on standard time :) Hey if we were perfect we would be perfectly boring :wink: