Too many fast riders in the C28s to Waterfall

Road cycling & upcoming rides
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marc2131
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Location: Ashbury

Postby marc2131 » 30 Jan 2017, 20:16

Last weeks C28s ride to Waterfall was huge. I was riding the Middies and thought i saw a good 20 or so riders in a huge peleton heading to Waterfall.
Some stronger riders have to move up to the Middies. You know who you are. It is not that hard. It might even be fun.
Marc :)

jcaley
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Joined: 25 Oct 2012, 07:14

Postby jcaley » 31 Jan 2017, 10:46

Sometimes stronger riders don't want or need to ride hard. It should be fine for them the ride at the appropriate pace in a slower bunch if they wish. We can always split the bunches if needed to keep them manageable

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JoTheBuilder
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Postby JoTheBuilder » 31 Jan 2017, 11:03

I attempted to ride Middies 2 weeks ago and a Fasties rider was in the bunch having a ride with a mate. He said it was more a middies pace than 28's. The front riders were rotating quickly and it was pretty quick up Kingsway. I'm in no means a 28's rider yet (but hopefully soon) but I agree with Marc. :-)


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Dougie
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Location: Dulwich Hill

Postby Dougie » 31 Jan 2017, 17:55

The C28's was quite large on Sunday. I was in this bunch. I was on the front from Marrickville to Dolls Point and kept the pace in check with no one dropped. The group needed slowing on the Kingsway a little which i did. There were some varying levels of skills within the bunch which were handled by the likes of Lindsay as well. I note Lindsay spent some time on the front offering in his usual style, a very measured pace.

The front was rolled quiet often from Dolls Point to Waterfall. I manged to get from the front right to about fifth wheel on the right again from Dolls Point to Waterfall with the Bunch being 20 plus riders. The change was less that people were fried and more sharing the lead.

I my experience the biggest (mental) leap for a rider is C28's to Middies than with other bunches. The reality is that the gap is far smaller than is imagined. The challenge comes from riders pushing the pace on the hills when they are on the front simply because they think they are holding others up. There are many regular riders in each bunch who "know" the effort required on the hills and simply need to be vocal.

Our Club is growing very quickly and i don't see any sign of this growth plateauing. Larger bunches will be the norm rather than the exception. Whilst the Club would desperately like more designated Ride Leaders to spread the love, we aren't being knocked over by volunteers nor does Cycling NSW offer many opportunities for those interested to get qualified. Regardless of this challenge, we are all individually responsible for our own front wheels. We all have the capacity to speak up. The culture of our club allows for discussion and an easing of the pace or a challenge to an action that may be dangerous. On the odd occasion when i have asked someone specifically to move up a bunch they have. However i do find that overwhelmingly riders wish to ride with their mates. It then falls to the bunch to be self regulating.

Having said that, if bunches are heading over the twenty mark they do need to be split. By all means ride at the same pace and effort level. Just do it one minute apart.

There was a crash in the Pace Line on the return from Waterfall to Sutherland. At Waterfall, we stopped, briefed the Pace Line and splint into three groups. Faster - more experienced, slightly slower and then 3 novices/ newer riders with me. I was not present in the group that crashed. There was a fast flat tyre. I witnessed the massive screw pulled from the tyre. There were some unplanned dismounts that ranged in result from a Scapula fractured in three places and subsequently 12 weeks off the bike, to road rash and other bumps and bruises. I really don't believe bunch size played a role in this crash.

I recently offered an observation that has been playing on my mind for some time. It is coincidental with this crash. I do feel that at times a "Pace line" is confused with the notion of a "Lead Out or Sprint Train". Rarely have I seen the Professionals crash in a Pace line but by god the carnage in their Sprint Trains is the stuff that makes Youtube popular. I do think that when riders are on the rivet both their concentration and their level of bike control are compromised. I try very hard to keep the pace line in check until the Mad Mile. At that point people can push towards the 7/11.

Smooth is fast

Dougie

timothy_clifford
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Postby timothy_clifford » 01 Feb 2017, 11:10

Wise words Dougie.

Strawburger
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Postby Strawburger » 01 Feb 2017, 12:39

Dougie wrote:However i do find that overwhelmingly riders wish to ride with their mates. It then falls to the bunch to be self regulating.

Dougie


Nice one Dougie.

I reckon if a person wants to ride with their mates who are in a lower group than said person should be in, that person has relinquished their position to be on the front of the bunch.

If they want to ride with their mate and ride on the front, then they need to convince their mate to go up to their bunch, if it is deemed safe to do so.

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Stuart
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Location: Dulwich Hill

Postby Stuart » 01 Feb 2017, 16:20

JoTheBuilder wrote:I attempted to ride Middies 2 weeks ago and a Fasties rider was in the bunch having a ride with a mate. He said it was more a middies pace than 28's. The front riders were rotating quickly and it was pretty quick up Kingsway. I'm in no means a 28's rider yet (but hopefully soon) but I agree with Marc. :-)


Is that supposed to be "I attempted to ride C28's" Jo ?? :shock:

bnej
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Joined: 05 Jul 2010, 20:28

Postby bnej » 01 Feb 2017, 16:25

Strawburger wrote:If they want to ride with their mate and ride on the front, then they need to convince their mate to go up to their bunch, if it is deemed safe to do so.


+1

The issue isn't being in C28s and riding C28s pace, the issue is going in C28s and riding hard at the front because the pace is too easy for you. It's been an issue for years, since it's generally a pace a lot of people get comfortable with, and then they start getting strong but they feel safer or better staying in the same ride for whatever reason.

I know that if it's a small middies bunch and a large C28s bunch, it's not uncommon for C28s to start reeling middies in if a few people are pushing the pace. Even more so if it's windy.

If you want to train and C28s is too easy, get in middies and train. If you're strong enough to pull C28s half the way you won't be dropped.

If you want to cruise, go in C28s but cruise, don't get antsy because the pace is slower than what you can do.

Middies is not hard as training rides go, as long as you don't do too many long turns at the front. Sitting on is not much harder than C28s.

If people push the pace up for the 28s it makes it hard for the C25s to jump up as well. If you think going C28s to middies is hard think about how it is to go from C25s to trying to hang on to middies-pace C28s (ala C30s).


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