2008 B2B/Mt Panorama

[weiyun]

Just noticed that registration has opened for this annual event. Anyone planning to do it? I am going to enter it in my diary and hopefully will be able to make it for the two days weekend. Any info on logistics for the two day event?

[mikesbytes]

Ride there on the previous day with James F and Eugene

[weiyun]

Ride there on the previous day with James F and Eugene

That's called softening up your competition...

[T-Bone]

Not sure if i'll be doing that.......

I might think about it though!!

I'm planning to race as i have to improve on last years 4th place. Hopefully i won't have cramps trying to get up Mt Panorama to the finish line.

[weiyun]

Ok, I remain interested. Anyone familiar with the logistics of it? If I am driving up, where should I leave the car (assume Bathurst) and then how can I get the bike and myself to Blayney in time for the start?

[T-Bone]

Last year we drove up the day before, and stayed in Blayney, but i did have my Dad to drive the car. Otherwise my plan was to drive to Blayney in the morning, and then ride back there the short way after the race to get the car and go home.

Haven't decided what i'll be doing yet, depends how much time i have, but i'll probably stick with something similar to last years plan.

[Stretch]

Last year we drove up the day before, and stayed in Blayney, but i did have my Dad to drive the car. . . . . . . . ., but i'll probably stick with something similar to last years plan.

Maybe . . what are the dates?

[othy]

I'm interested in this. Lindsay mentioned it to me as a good goal when I first started riding, and I think I'm probably able to complete it. Not sure of any logistics. When does sign-up need to be in by?

[mikesbytes]

I'm interested in this. Lindsay mentioned it to me as a good goal when I first started riding, and I think I'm probably able to complete it. Not sure of any logistics. When does sign-up need to be in by?

What kind of license is required?

[othy]

What kind of license is required?

Apparently it is open to everyone and a "Ride it" license is provided for the day only as part of registration.

[mikesbytes]

Apparently it is open to everyone and a "Ride it" license is provided for the day only as part of registration.

Good stuff

[weiyun]

It's a cyclo-sportif... Whatever that means. Good that it's open to all comers. Given it's sponsored by the NAB, maybe I should ask my banker to see what perks they'd offer.

[T-Bone]

Open to pretty much everyone, but there are different categories, so those with a racing licence are basically riding a graded scratch race, while the ride it just do a ride. I think that's how it is anyway, seemed that way last year.

[mikesbytes]

What grade did you race last year James F?

[T-Bone]

I was D-grade last year.

[T-Bone]

Well, not sure if i'm going to do this one now. I was almost going to enter when entering for the Ken Dinnerville, but realised it's a $65 entry, which is pushing it a bit for me. Even though 50% of the entry apparently goes to rotary, it also mentions everyone riding gets a ride it membership licence (i assume for the day), so why do entries cost the same for members and non-members, i'd expect a difference for people that already have a licence.

I also don't like how they never make it clear if there's actually a race, though i'd guess it'd be like last year. Prize money wasn't too exciting though as it only paid down to 3rd for D-grade.

Anyway, i'm still thinking about it, but entries close this weekend, so let me know who else is still thinking.

[Adrian E]

I've entered in the B2B but by mistake I accidently entered in the 70km short course. Not to worry. However, I did email NSW cycling to tell them of this mistake and to ask if they could change me over. Needless to say, I got no response... I've tried contacting them 3 times in the last year over different matters and not once have they responded to anything.

[weiyun]

I've tried contacting them 3 times in the last year over different matters and not once have they responded to anything.

Was that BicycleNSW or CyclingNSW?

[Adrian E]

Ha Ha... i think I'd have much more luck with Bicycle NSW.

[mikesbytes]

Ha Ha... i think I'd have much more luck with Bicycle NSW.

Thought you were talking to yourself the other day...

Don't suppose they have a phone number?

[Adrian E]

yes I could call, but my first problem is I don't have a land line (and hate being on hold with a mobile). the second problem is I can't move my lower jaw at the moment as i've just had my wisdom teeth removed.

anyway, I'll try calling NSW cycling later in the week.

[Huw]

I'm about to register, and there's an option to pay for a bus from Bathurst to Blayney start, $15.

I haven't thought about logistics at all - should I include the bus?

[T-Bone]

Decide on your travel plans, and then whether you'll need a bus.

I've decided i'm not going to race. I need to spend some time getting some form into my legs, plus i might need to get my knee checked out as it's stll getting a little sore at times when riding and it's been over 1 month since the crash.

[Simon Llewellyn]

Just some friendly advice, minus the sore knee the only way your going to get fit enough to race is by racing!!!

[weiyun]

Just some friendly advice, minus the sore knee the only way your going to get fit enough to race is by racing!!!

Again, I disagree with the "only" word. Structured interval training can also get you fit for races, probably a lot more efficiently and cheaper. I would agree with your use of "only" if you limit it to "winning races", as that takes experience and tactic, more than plain physical fitness. Even then, if your structured training can get you fitter than all in your grade, then you'll stand a good chance of winning through raw power.

[Simon Llewellyn]

No one should race to finish second... Race not to win just for fitness sake but not for second...

Weiyun mate last year at the state titles I rode in one weekend; the kilo friday night, pursuit saturday morning, keirin saturday avo, scratch race saturday night & omnium sunday which was another kilo, pursuit, scratch race plus a points race and flying 200m.

There is absolutely no way you could force your body to go through that much torment unless you were racing...

You can get your fitness up through training to the point that your very fit but you have to race to sharpen your form if you want to be in contention to win!!

& if you win without doing that your either in the wrong grade or not reaching your true potential!!!

[weiyun]

No one should race to finish second... Race not to win just for fitness sake but not for second...

You can get your fitness up through training to the point that your very fit but you have to race to sharpen your form if you want to be in contention to win!!

But that was exactly my point and contradictory to your earlier statement. You can get fit enough to race by training.

As for no one should race to finish second, well, if that's the mentality, then many shouldn't be bothered to race at Heffron as well as many other race meets. I understand there's a lot more to racing than to come first.

[Simon Llewellyn]

The thing about most racing is there's generally one, maybe two guys who are more than likely going to win if the race pans out how they want it to & that's a bunch sprint.

However there are many different styles and ways to ride a bike race & there is always a number of different abilities in a bunch. There a sprinters, there are pursuiters who can hold a very high pace for a very long time, there are guys who can ride all day and guys who just seem to float up hills.

In Australia generally the etiquette in most races is to stay together and sprint on the last lap. Why that is? who knows? in europe it's the opposite; attack after attack till either someone/s gets away or then the sprinters get to sprint.

It's about working out what kind of rider you are and learning how to best use your abilities; what lap to attack on and how long you are capable pf staying away for at whatever speed you are capable of holding. It is not about winning it is about execution and having the best race you are capable of riding. & most of all enjoying yourself an getting as fit as you can!!!

The fastest rider often doesn't win. You've got use your head also...

But if you want to train instead of race to save time or your bank balance that is up to you. I"m just telling you that racing is the best form of training....

[weiyun]

You are moving out of your original criteria which was "fit enough to race". And clearly racing is not the only way to get there.

[Simon Llewellyn]

When I use the term 'fit enough to race' what I mean is fit enough to be in contention to win, which in a road race means finishing with the main bunch. The Blayney is an open, so is Dapto. these races tend to be very quick, well E or F grade may not be too bad but you still have to be going well to compete, it can be a tough ask to finish with the main bunch.

I don't really understand why you are choosing to argue this Weiyun? I'm just offering you some friendly advice on how to train & race. I don't think I rode a track open last season which actually cost anything. I always recuperated the entry fee in prize money. That wasn't from winning every race, just consistency...

[weiyun]

At the same time, I don't know why you are pushing so hard on racing as if it's a be all and end all method to get fit. And if you had earlier qualified your statement per above "I mean is fit enough to be in contention to win", then I may not have disagreed with you. Yet again, there are plenty out there who train outside of racing and do a very credible job in their occasional race.

So let's not be so absolute on those statements. There are more than one way to get race fit. And the fact that you can always recoup your entry fees further suggest that you are in a different situation to most, and the term "only" would not likely to be applicable to most.

[Simon Llewellyn]

Yeah but Weiyun when I originally made th statement I was talking to t-bone who doesn't plan to be an occasional racer, he generally does most of the road opens & I was pointing out that if he wants to get a few good results this season then by choosing not to race because he isn't fit enough will be an excuse that will hold all season and he won't race at all this season. We all do it but its best just to bite the bullet and do it. THose first few races are always difficult but it does get easier.

It wasn't a comment directed at the occassional racer, it was directed at him, to try and encourage him to race. Obvious that sort of encouragement doesn't work for you because you have spent the last hour arguing about it but it wasn't directed at you. I have absolutely no problem with the way you train or race. I think it is fantastic that you are willing to get out there and give it a go. Your schedule is your own business not mine.

But t-bones schedule matters abit more to me because I would like to see the guy get a few results if he can or at least not be scared off racing because he is afraid to lose. But again that his business not mine. it is just encouragement not an order....

[weiyun]

Yeah but Weiyun when I originally made th statement I was talking to t-bone who doesn't plan to be an occasional racer...

If you quoted his post in your post, then you have an argument. But given your unquoted post with a strong and scientifically unsupported view, in a thread that involved numerous other posters, it's not unreasonable for people to question your statement outside a 1:1 conversation. And now we are 8 posts since your original statement and you've finally released this version of explanation... Any other versions?

Simon, I know where you are coming from and that you are keen to motivate others to participate in races. I have no problems with that. But the fact of the matter is, you can get race fit through private training.

[Huw]

Decide on your travel plans, and then whether you'll need a bus.

I guess I was hoping that there might be some accepted wisdom about that. I didn't book the bus, so I guess I'll be finding a way to get from one place to the other.

So, this is the current start list:

Eugen 70 km
Adrian 70 km
Huw 110 km

Anyone else?

[Camilla]

I was thinking of having a go at it. Not to race of course (sorry Simon) but because I have a friend in Bathurst I want to visit and I thought it might be fun to combine it with a ride. I was looking at the 110km option and was going to ask advice about that nasty looking hill in the (tiny tiny) profile, but as fitter, faster, stronger riders than me are doing the 70 I guess that answers my question.

My (still vague) plan is this: to drive down on Friday night or Saturday morning, stay with said friend (whose on a property this side of Bathurst) and then have him drive me to Blaney on the Sunday morning. He has a big ute, so we could take one other rider & their bike from Bathurst to Blaney. I have a little ute, so can take one other rider and their bike home to Sydney from Bathurst. And potentially even up to Bathurst from Sydney too.

Or if anyone's got a van my friend James could drive the lot of us to Blaney.

[lindsay]

I'm in...

[T-Bone]

Just some friendly advice, minus the sore knee the only way your going to get fit enough to race is by racing!!!

Don't worry too much, i'll still be doing plenty of racing this year. I've got 11 or 12 races in my plans for this year, with 5 more possible, so there'll be plenty for me. I'll even be at Heffron a bit. I know racing is the best way to get some form, i think it's a more consistent training pattern that i'm trying to sort out first.

I was originally planning to do this race rather than Cootamundra, but i think i'm going to do Coota instead, which also brings cost into it, as either way i'll be skipping 1 or 2 days of work (save my holidays for a more useful time). Cootamundra is also 2 races with a lower total entry fee, and being closer to other races that i'm more interested in would enable me to maintain the race fitness between races much more easily. I've got 11 or 12 races in my plans for this year, with 5 more possible, so there'll be plenty of racing for me

[Adrian E]

Tkanks to Eugene's efforts were both now in the 110km long course.

[T-Bone]

Tkanks to Eugene's efforts were both now in the 110km long course.

I had thought it was a bit strange for Eugen to be in the 70km event. Good to know you got it swapped as that dirt road climb is one of the most interesting bits of the race.

[weiyun]

I had thought it was a bit strange for Eugen to be in the 70km event. Good to know you got it swapped as that dirt road climb is one of the most interesting bits of the race.

How's that so? I thought the Mt Panorama climb at the end was the one that hurt most people.

[T-Bone]

I didn't say it's the hardest, just interesting!! How often do you get to race on some dirt road?? The race does split up a bit on that climb anyway, but is most likely to regroup slightly before Mt Panorama.

[weiyun]

Interesting eh? Is it just unsealed road or some really rough dirt track? Is it flats city?

[Eugen Schilter]

The dirt section is pretty rough but, because s'an approx 6% uphill, doesn't shatter you. Approx 2km long. Exuberent climbing out of the saddle looses much efficiency. Stylish saddle climbing a la Indurain is the word. Top of hill is end of dirt.

For once not even fresh legs on top (which you wont't have anyhow) would help because the KOM is immediately followed by a 80m steep down and a gravel loaded T intersection (left hander into the road to Perthville, Bathurst, first 4k dowhill and then flat). So just re-assemble your legs, let gravity work, and use the brakes wisely so not to dye the pebbles red.

Last year's race had a medium pace over the first hour as a break group went away. At km40 is a hairpin at the lowest point of the race. The field accelerated with might and split into two bunches. I was hanging in the second one with an effort so bad that I will remember it when I finaly will say 'goodbye world'. Somehow I even got to the front and was pleased that some strong riders made the junction again. What I did not realise then - and that was the reason why the acceleration was so goddam - was that at the same time the first bunch chased and caught the break; so all was together again when we crossed the devide (1100m ab sea).

Then was easy sailing but approching the hills leading to the KOM I wanted to work myself to the front; except that right then everybody had the same idea. The pace got more and more and then too frantic for me. I was out; when on the gravel my legs did not feel like spinning.

After the hill a little group formed but, of cours, disintegrated again up Mt Panorama.

The last 300m of the B to B are very testing. Because of the bends the gradient varies very substantially across the road. You can 'select' the gradient that suits best your legpower (if any) and gearing. There's no rush to the finish line! If you can maintain walking speed you're doing fine. Some walk anyhow. It's is not so easy to get on the bike again for crossing the finish line in style. There's spectators there too!

[T-Bone]

That was 2006 right, because you were sick last year and didn't race.

For me last year it all stayed together prettymuch until just getting closer to rocky mountain when people began trying to get away. Of course in order to make sure i had a good line on the dirt i attacked as well and had a small gap when i hit the dirt first. Going up the climb it split up, and i was in a small group, but with a group 4 times the size coming from behind we eventually sat up so we could have a rest before Mt Panorama. Just before we got to the race track, the attacks started again, though it remained together until conrods straight as the road slowly began to creep up. Of course then you hit the steep bit and just have to push through, which isn't fun when your legs are seizing with cramps.

[mikesbytes]

What's the grip like on the gravel?

[weiyun]

Yes, I remember people talking about walking up Mt Panorama last year.

Well, looks like I'll have to push my plans for B2B to next year. Look forward to hearing your reports for this year though.

[Camilla]

I've just signed myself up for the 110. That gravel hill sounds like too much fun.

But can someone please explain the 25m and 2m lateral gap rule to me?

[Kieran]

Don't worry too much, i'll still be doing plenty of racing this year. I've got 11 or 12 races in my plans for this year, with 5 more possible, so there'll be plenty for me. I'll even be at Heffron a bit. I know racing is the best way to get some form, i think it's a more consistent training pattern that i'm trying to sort out first.

What are the 11 or 12 you were keen on. I want to get a fair bit of racing in this year but not sure what events to plan for so I can book time off work.

Is the B2B still open ????

[T-Bone]

I think you can enter on the day as well, though you'd have to check.

[Adrian E]

I think this means yes.

From NSW Cycling's webpage...

Entries are being accepted via the online entry system at the moment, however in order to number the riders the online system will be closed on Sunday night and all other entries will be processed on Saturday at Mt Panorama or at Blayney on Sunday morning before the ride begins.

http://www.nsw.cycling.org.au/b2b.htm

Hope you can make it Kieran.

[Kieran]

I didn't realise it was this weekend. I don't think I can do it actually. But have a great race.

[Adrian E]

I've been meaning to write a race report on the B2B, but have been waiting to catch my breath.

This year at the Blayney to Bathurst DHBC had 5 riders (Eugene, Huw, Camilla, Lindsay and myself)… we also had Phil Scheidegger who we've called an associate member of the club (although he rides with Northern Sydney).

The race started on what appeared to be a very warm Blayney morning (we didn’t even wear arm-warmers). We were divided up into different groups depending on age (although Eugene jumped in with the elite 24-35 men’s group). The massive bunch roll out of town and it was a lot of fun, although it was probably within 10km that I’d dropped off the leading bunch which was really picking up pace. In my ride, I think I was in the third and last bunch. I found that I was doing a lot of work at the front and was a bit frustrated by this. The only major move in my race occurred where there was a steep left hand turn up a long hill and into the cold rain. I found that I was climbing well and went off the font of the bunch, there was a faster under 24s group that was a couple of hundred metres up the road. I managed to bridge the gap, then stay on them for a while until the point of exhaustion. I fell off, deciding to take care of myself as I was feeling completely numb in my in my feet. For quiet a while I was riding alone but the sun had come back out I just enjoyed the warmth and scenic countryside. Eventually, the bunch I’d left caught up with me and I rejoined them. By the time I got to the dirt King of the Mountain climb I was feeling very weak and amazed at how slowly I was spinning. I had mistakenly not taken any extra food except beyond one liquid food supplement. However, much to my delight, I stopped at the top of the climb to collect water and managed to grab four fruit buns. I scoffed them all down as I rolled down the long decent into Bathurst and started to pick up again. From there, it was just one long flat before final and torturous climb up Mt Panorama. At the end I was just relieved to have finished the race. It’s a really great race and excellent personal challenge just to finish.

Naturally, I’ll let others describe how the events of the day unfolded for themselves. We all had an awesome weekend which ended with a late lunch in Bathurst.

[weiyun]

I heard that there was 40km of rain along the way...

[Adrian E]

Yeap, it rained for about an hour near the start of the race. It wasn't too bad though.

[Adrian E]

I've upgraded the Race Reports section of the webpage.
Unfortunately we don't have that many racing pics... for obvious reasons.
http://dhbc.org.au/index.php?pr=road12

[mikesbytes]

Congratulations to Camila on her 23rd place in the womans division.

[williamd]

Congratulations Camila on your 23rd place.

[Camilla]

gee thanks! I may even crack 5 hours next year.

[mikesbytes]

gee thanks! I may even crack 5 hours next year.

You weren't far off it !