Do you use them?
What do you recommend?
Spoke count?
Rim depth?
Tire width?
Any thoughts...
Training wheels???
Something cheap, durable and comfortable. At least when you hit that big pot hole, you aren't going to hurt too much in the hip pocket.
I don't have a specific set of wheels for Training.
If I did though, you generally want something which is Bomb Proof, this pretty much means that you want as high a spoke count as possible, 34 or 36, a double walled deep dish rim and a good solid hub. I used to ride a bike (the old Cannondale which is currently MIA) which had Mavic CXP 33's (or something similar).
As far as tyre choice goes, I would just use something good, I run a pretty good tyre on my current wheels which is probably a "race tyre", but it keeps punctures low, but I only get about 2-3000 k's out of a back tyre.
James
If I did though, you generally want something which is Bomb Proof, this pretty much means that you want as high a spoke count as possible, 34 or 36, a double walled deep dish rim and a good solid hub. I used to ride a bike (the old Cannondale which is currently MIA) which had Mavic CXP 33's (or something similar).
As far as tyre choice goes, I would just use something good, I run a pretty good tyre on my current wheels which is probably a "race tyre", but it keeps punctures low, but I only get about 2-3000 k's out of a back tyre.
James
If you are switching to GP4000, I suspect you'll improve on that number....but I only get about 2-3000 k's out of a back tyre.
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mikesbytes
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Adrian,
Once you have training and racing wheels, you can fine tune to their specific purpose.
For example on the race wheels you could put latex tubes and GP4000s/Pro3Race/Super_Sonics/whatever
Where on the training wheels you can put Al's $10 tyres and $4 tubes.
Once you have training and racing wheels, you can fine tune to their specific purpose.
For example on the race wheels you could put latex tubes and GP4000s/Pro3Race/Super_Sonics/whatever
Where on the training wheels you can put Al's $10 tyres and $4 tubes.
That's only if short term money saving is a priority. The way I look at it is this, a bad fall on a set of poor quality tyres or extra punctures and tubes it consumes, that cost-benefit equation can reverse very quickly.Where on the training wheels you can put Al's $10 tyres and $4 tubes.
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mikesbytes
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I don't think that Al's tyres and tubes reduce safety or even have more punctures. Bad rolling resistance yes.
Perhaps Huw and Simon can clarify on this point.
Perhaps Huw and Simon can clarify on this point.
Is there a brand and model we can Google? But seriously, I doubt it'll have equal or better grip than a GP4000 or ProRace2, especially in the wet. So on that basis, it would be a reduction in safety.I don't think that Al's tyres and tubes reduce safety or even have more punctures. Bad rolling resistance yes.
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mikesbytes
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Nit picking Weiyun, 28mm have more grip than 23mm so why aren't you running 28's?
Absolutely, there's so much nit picking in cycling.Nit picking Weiyun, 28mm have more grip than 23mm so why aren't you running 28's?
28mm would be a nice choice for comfort and may well be a good option for long training rides. But then again for me, comfort isn't a priority nor has it been an issue. The other issue with 28mm is that it doesn't fit my bike frame. As it stand at the moment on the Ridley, it's already a hard squeeze to mount the rear wheel with 23mm tyre mounted. But you are right, I have read that many cyclists in the northern hemisphere use 28mm tyres on their winter bikes for the exact reason you pointed to.
So far I've been looking at the Bontrager classics
http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Wheelwork ... /23522.php
and off course the Deep V.
http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=537
The reality is 95% of my kms are for training so I want to get something bombproof and keep the race wheels for special days.
http://www.bontrager.com/Road/Wheelwork ... /23522.php
and off course the Deep V.
http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=537
The reality is 95% of my kms are for training so I want to get something bombproof and keep the race wheels for special days.
Or as JamesC pointed out, just use the one good solid wheel for all the riding. The problem with having a race only wheel is that it'll be out of date with a major value drop in a few years. Is that really worth it for the amount of racing and mileage done? So just get a quality solid wheel and ride it for 2-3 years and flip it. But I can see the big advantage of having a spare set of wheels whether racing, training or whatever.
The other question is, does one really need a 32/36 spoke wheel? If your body weight is on the low side, you can be less restrictive.
The other question is, does one really need a 32/36 spoke wheel? If your body weight is on the low side, you can be less restrictive.
I'm the same view as James C and Weiyun.
When I bought my bike I got pretty good race wheels. The shop said I should get myself a training pair and keep the race wheels for special ocassions.
Well, given that I don't race too much, but not infrequently either, my feeling is that every hard club ride to Waterfall or RNP is a special ocassion. You only live once and might as well enjoy the whole bike you brought for what it brings you.
And it is alwasys a very special ocassion climbing Audley and all I can say is thank goodness I'm not on a training wheel.
Adrian - you eaned it, so enjoy it!
When I bought my bike I got pretty good race wheels. The shop said I should get myself a training pair and keep the race wheels for special ocassions.
Well, given that I don't race too much, but not infrequently either, my feeling is that every hard club ride to Waterfall or RNP is a special ocassion. You only live once and might as well enjoy the whole bike you brought for what it brings you.
And it is alwasys a very special ocassion climbing Audley and all I can say is thank goodness I'm not on a training wheel.
Adrian - you eaned it, so enjoy it!
The objective argument against this line of thinking is that, an extra 300g on your wheels would have only slowed you 5 seconds on that Audley climb.And it is alwasys a very special ocassion climbing Audley and all I can say is thank goodness I'm not on a training wheel.
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Simon Llewellyn
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I'll back Mike up with Al's Tyres and tubes. I have had far less punctures on Al's tyres than any other tyre. They are heavy, they are thick, they don't wear out quick, but you wouldn't race on them ever! Perfect for training..
In repsonse to the question on the need for training wheels. I think if you want to get training wheels, the first thing you should do when you get up tomorrow morning is go out and buy a set of campag Boras which only run singles. Once you have a set of racing wheels worth over $3000 you won't even question the need for training wheels, you simply won't have the guts to put your Bora's on unless it is a race you really value. On my track bike my pista racing wheels never come out till there is a serious race such as an open or sometimes friday night winter racing and my disc certainly never comes out unless it is a state title with minimal risk of crashing or a very high paying wheel race final which justifies the risk.
If you race wheels which are worth less than $1000 then if you put the wearing out time to the price of replacing them & the level of performance lost by the number of kms done training I don't think you will justify the need for race wheels. I know for most saying $1000 for racing wheels is high but that's the reality. Over a grant you would also consider singles, wheels like Zipp 404s, some serious racing wheels. otherwise your really wasting money. You would be better combining the price of your racing wheels and training wheels and buying some nice mavics running clinchers or something like that just under the sub $1000 mark. Everyone I talk to says mavic Ksyriums are so durable that you can do all your riding on them for about 20 years and if you keep replacing the ball bearings you'll be fine & as such you may as well use them for everything....
If you were competing for a state title it may be a bit different but then you would really need to spend a bit more on racing wheels...
In repsonse to the question on the need for training wheels. I think if you want to get training wheels, the first thing you should do when you get up tomorrow morning is go out and buy a set of campag Boras which only run singles. Once you have a set of racing wheels worth over $3000 you won't even question the need for training wheels, you simply won't have the guts to put your Bora's on unless it is a race you really value. On my track bike my pista racing wheels never come out till there is a serious race such as an open or sometimes friday night winter racing and my disc certainly never comes out unless it is a state title with minimal risk of crashing or a very high paying wheel race final which justifies the risk.
If you race wheels which are worth less than $1000 then if you put the wearing out time to the price of replacing them & the level of performance lost by the number of kms done training I don't think you will justify the need for race wheels. I know for most saying $1000 for racing wheels is high but that's the reality. Over a grant you would also consider singles, wheels like Zipp 404s, some serious racing wheels. otherwise your really wasting money. You would be better combining the price of your racing wheels and training wheels and buying some nice mavics running clinchers or something like that just under the sub $1000 mark. Everyone I talk to says mavic Ksyriums are so durable that you can do all your riding on them for about 20 years and if you keep replacing the ball bearings you'll be fine & as such you may as well use them for everything....
If you were competing for a state title it may be a bit different but then you would really need to spend a bit more on racing wheels...
Compared with which other tyres in terms of puncture resistance? And why wouldn't you race on them in a so definitive way? Less grip?I'll back Mike up with Al's Tyres and tubes. I have had far less punctures on Al's tyres than any other tyre. They are heavy, they are thick, they don't wear out quick, but you wouldn't race on them ever! Perfect for training..
Currently, I run an old set of Campy Zonda's on my bike. To replace with the current Zonda's, I am looking at about $1,000.
These wheels are pretty good, I have raced on them, and I train on them as well. In the scheme of things, they are pretty solid and I have no issue with them.
As Simon said, unless you are prepared to drop some serious money on some good race wheels (Zipps or Campy Bora's), then I don't see a lot of point in getting a special set of race wheels. There are several wheelsets out there for about $1,500 that you can use across the board. Obvious candidates are the Mavic Ksryium ES (the ones with the Red Spoke and Hub), Campagnolo Euros, and Fulcrum Racing 1's. Any of these wheelsets will be good enough for racing, and solid enough for training.
I have often found it ironic, that we race on our "good bikes", a race is where you are more likely to have crashes as everyone is getting tired, and the competitiveness goes up as well. Very few of us have insurance on our bikes, and if you have a tumble in a race, then any damage to the bike is at your own cost.
You also need to consider what sort of advantage you may get out of a set of race wheels, you may only be able to gain 5-10 (or even less) seconds on a climb. At our level, is this enough of a justification?
James
These wheels are pretty good, I have raced on them, and I train on them as well. In the scheme of things, they are pretty solid and I have no issue with them.
As Simon said, unless you are prepared to drop some serious money on some good race wheels (Zipps or Campy Bora's), then I don't see a lot of point in getting a special set of race wheels. There are several wheelsets out there for about $1,500 that you can use across the board. Obvious candidates are the Mavic Ksryium ES (the ones with the Red Spoke and Hub), Campagnolo Euros, and Fulcrum Racing 1's. Any of these wheelsets will be good enough for racing, and solid enough for training.
I have often found it ironic, that we race on our "good bikes", a race is where you are more likely to have crashes as everyone is getting tired, and the competitiveness goes up as well. Very few of us have insurance on our bikes, and if you have a tumble in a race, then any damage to the bike is at your own cost.
You also need to consider what sort of advantage you may get out of a set of race wheels, you may only be able to gain 5-10 (or even less) seconds on a climb. At our level, is this enough of a justification?
James
It's all about bling and "wanna-be" at the amateur level.
Then there's a "shinny bike syndrome" that can invariably extract an extra 10% out of you. At the same time it implies that the rider's psychology has been screwed up normally.
I agree what's said about a race wheel above. The alternate view is that a race bike/wheel is one that has been carefully maintained with everything working as well as it could. So under the stresses of a race, less things are likely to go wrong, and possibly causing an accident. Whereas a training bike can be allowed to run down a bit.
Then there's a "shinny bike syndrome" that can invariably extract an extra 10% out of you. At the same time it implies that the rider's psychology has been screwed up normally.
I agree what's said about a race wheel above. The alternate view is that a race bike/wheel is one that has been carefully maintained with everything working as well as it could. So under the stresses of a race, less things are likely to go wrong, and possibly causing an accident. Whereas a training bike can be allowed to run down a bit.
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mikesbytes
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I was racing a guy on deep cf wheels last Saturday, plenty of $$$ in that bike and that's his choice.
Maybe I'll get one of Al's tyres and take the pro2race off the commuter to save it as a spare for the OCR.
James, what tyre's are you riding on and how much did they cost?
Maybe I'll get one of Al's tyres and take the pro2race off the commuter to save it as a spare for the OCR.
James, what tyre's are you riding on and how much did they cost?
My main interest in training wheels is to get something that will last, not speed per see. I had my wheels trued 5 times last year and I ended up with cracked rims from being 'over-trued'. I don't want to go through this again, and I don't know if the bontrager race's that come with the trek's I'm look at are really up to it in terms of longevity.... but the mavics Ksryium sound like a good option for training/club racing.
btw: regarding Mike' picture of training wheels. I actually had an adult ask me if I knew of any "training wheels" to fit an adult bike. I had to admit that I'd never hear of any such thing and suggested they'd be better going to a good bike training course.
Its amazing to remember how when we take riding a bike for granted, it can be completely foreign to others.
Its amazing to remember how when we take riding a bike for granted, it can be completely foreign to others.
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mikesbytes
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36h velocity deep V should be on your short list.
What are your hubs like? can they be recycled?
BTW, do you true your own wheels?
What are your hubs like? can they be recycled?
BTW, do you true your own wheels?
Bear in mind that you'll be paying a little for a brand name and based on reports, Ksyriums aren't that aero. Again it comes back to factory vs custom wheels. For factory wheels, it's also worth thinking about Fulcrums (effectively Campagnolo) or even straight Campagnolo with Shimano compatible freewheel, all with a solid reputation for durability. Going to custom wheels would give you all the usual mix of suspects... See Huw's thread on this subject not too long ago.My main interest in training wheels is to get something that will last, not speed per see.... but the mavics Ksryium sound like a good option for training/club racing.
BTW, what's your weight?
Mike, I am currently running Vittoria Diamante Pro's (http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1100), when I bought them, they were about $35-$40 each, they rec retail in Australia for about $100.
Basically, they are cheap enough from PBK that I decided to run them constantly, despite them being more of a race tyre.
James
Basically, they are cheap enough from PBK that I decided to run them constantly, despite them being more of a race tyre.
James
simon said:
'I'll back Mike up with Al's Tyres and tubes. I have had far less punctures on Al's tyres than any other tyre. They are heavy, they are thick, they don't wear out quick, but you wouldn't race on them ever! Perfect for training.'
Would'nt race on them? - sounds like a challenge! Details of make and model please and I'll catch with Al when he's back from Tassie.
'I'll back Mike up with Al's Tyres and tubes. I have had far less punctures on Al's tyres than any other tyre. They are heavy, they are thick, they don't wear out quick, but you wouldn't race on them ever! Perfect for training.'
Would'nt race on them? - sounds like a challenge! Details of make and model please and I'll catch with Al when he's back from Tassie.
Fixedgear: If you hit the quote button on the top right of each post, a quote box would be automatically generated by the server. Save you the trouble of copy and pasting, and clearer presentation of the quoted passage.
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mikesbytes
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Walk into Al's shop on Saturday morning and say I'll have 2 700c tyres and 5 tubes (short/medium/long valve). Allow 20 minutes for small talk.Details of make and model please and I'll catch with Al when he's back from Tassie.
Hmmm, like this? Well I never had a 'puter edjumacation - self taughtFixedgear: If you hit the quote button on the top right of each post, a quote box would be automatically generated by the server. Save you the trouble of copy and pasting, and clearer presentation of the quoted passage.
6 Steps to the perfect set of training wheels
1. Buy a set of decent hubs of your choice. For training, you are looking for reliability and durability. The best value for money is Shimano 105, or equivalent Campag. Many go for Ultegra, for their training wheels. I run 105. If your choice of hubs do not include skewers, buy skewers. Shimano 105 and Ultegras do include skewers.
2. Choose decent rims. Minimum requirement for training wheel rims is 32 spokes. This makes the wheels stronger and, in case of spoke breakage, means your wheel will be rideable and will get you home. Try doing that on a 16-spoke radial. Good luck. Rim choices? there are plenty. Deep section is preferable (because they are stronger and weight is a non-issue here right?), Deep section rims choices include Mavic CXP33, Velocity Deep V, Velocity Fusion, Rigida DP18 or DPX (bit shallower). If you are so inclined, strong shallow rim choices include, Mavic Open Pro and Velocity aerohead. AlexRims also has decent rim choices, but the names escape me.
3. Acquire some good quality spokes. As weight is a non-issue here, best value for money is DT Champion (straight-gauge spokes). Some wheelbuilders argue that there is no difference between straight and double butted spokes because the pressure on spokes is weakest at the middle section, and that, in fact, double butted are preferable because they allow for more flex at the middle section of the spoke, which means the wheel can handle deflections and defrmations better. Other wheelbuilders say straight guaged spokes make for a stronger build. Who knows.
4. Nipples! Brass nipples are best.
4. Take all acquisitions to a decent wheel builder. Tell wheel builder you would like your wheels built 3 cross all round.
5. Take built wheel from wheel builder. Buy rim tape and apply (Velox is one option).
6. Buy a set of value-for-money tyres and tubes (Al's tyres and tubes will work great. I currently run Vittoria Rubino Pros ($25 from probikekit) and the cheapest tubes I can get my hands on). Keep your expensive tyres for your racing wheels.
Result: A set of bomb proof wheels.
1. Buy a set of decent hubs of your choice. For training, you are looking for reliability and durability. The best value for money is Shimano 105, or equivalent Campag. Many go for Ultegra, for their training wheels. I run 105. If your choice of hubs do not include skewers, buy skewers. Shimano 105 and Ultegras do include skewers.
2. Choose decent rims. Minimum requirement for training wheel rims is 32 spokes. This makes the wheels stronger and, in case of spoke breakage, means your wheel will be rideable and will get you home. Try doing that on a 16-spoke radial. Good luck. Rim choices? there are plenty. Deep section is preferable (because they are stronger and weight is a non-issue here right?), Deep section rims choices include Mavic CXP33, Velocity Deep V, Velocity Fusion, Rigida DP18 or DPX (bit shallower). If you are so inclined, strong shallow rim choices include, Mavic Open Pro and Velocity aerohead. AlexRims also has decent rim choices, but the names escape me.
3. Acquire some good quality spokes. As weight is a non-issue here, best value for money is DT Champion (straight-gauge spokes). Some wheelbuilders argue that there is no difference between straight and double butted spokes because the pressure on spokes is weakest at the middle section, and that, in fact, double butted are preferable because they allow for more flex at the middle section of the spoke, which means the wheel can handle deflections and defrmations better. Other wheelbuilders say straight guaged spokes make for a stronger build. Who knows.
4. Nipples! Brass nipples are best.
4. Take all acquisitions to a decent wheel builder. Tell wheel builder you would like your wheels built 3 cross all round.
5. Take built wheel from wheel builder. Buy rim tape and apply (Velox is one option).
6. Buy a set of value-for-money tyres and tubes (Al's tyres and tubes will work great. I currently run Vittoria Rubino Pros ($25 from probikekit) and the cheapest tubes I can get my hands on). Keep your expensive tyres for your racing wheels.
Result: A set of bomb proof wheels.
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Simon Llewellyn
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It's no challenge, I race to win and you'll be decreasing your chances of winning by using them. Beside Al's suplies vary, he has one old line of tyres runs out and he gets some more in a different brand. You can't get the ones I use anymore...Would'nt race on them? - sounds like a challenge! Details of make and model please and I'll catch with Al when he's back from Tassie.
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Eugen Schilter
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I raced and trained on the Mavic Ksyrion SL my Giant came with, then replaced them twice through accident payout; $1050 a pair. They then got slightly damaged in races.
I would still race them but I like a second pair of wheels simply because sooner or later a wheel will be out of use and then you have to rush and cannot get the good deal you want. So I bought a set of SPINERGY XAEROLITE for $700 which are now my race wheels; sexy, aero, stiff and only grams haeavier than the mavics.
The conclusion: Used/damaged race wheels are your training wheels (as opposed to specially purchased training wheels).
The same principle goes for tyres too: just buy race tyres; new ones in events where you do not want a flat, used ones for training. Frequent changing gives practice!
I consider buying training wheel/ training tyres a waste of money.
I would still race them but I like a second pair of wheels simply because sooner or later a wheel will be out of use and then you have to rush and cannot get the good deal you want. So I bought a set of SPINERGY XAEROLITE for $700 which are now my race wheels; sexy, aero, stiff and only grams haeavier than the mavics.
The conclusion: Used/damaged race wheels are your training wheels (as opposed to specially purchased training wheels).
The same principle goes for tyres too: just buy race tyres; new ones in events where you do not want a flat, used ones for training. Frequent changing gives practice!
I consider buying training wheel/ training tyres a waste of money.
Do they have those special PBO spokes? Any comments on them? I was looking at them and was curious of all those said benefits.So I bought a set of SPINERGY XAEROLITE for $700 which are now my race wheels; sexy, aero, stiff and only grams haeavier than the mavics.
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Eugen Schilter
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I've ridden all the 07 races with the Spinergy wheels and so far no problem; no truing. The carbon 'PBO' spokes seem fine. However I do not know what I will do if I break one!
Thus no experience in truing which has to be done with the tyre off: by holding the spoke end with a (supplied) little key and turning a self-lock nut by means of an ordinary socket. Achieving optimal spoke tension seems to me a dearing task!
The PBO spokes are round (not bladed) and thus the Spinergy wheel is less side wind 'self steering' than the Ksyrion. With the Ksyrions I can at times just loose all the confidence within a fast decent and that is not good in a race.
The Ksyrions have their little drawbacks too: You can't get a rim at a reasonable price; the urban myth/bullshit goes round that you are not supposed to re-use the Alu spokes, so Clarence street asked for $1500 to rebuild two wheels! Also the bush in the freewheel seems not to be entirely kosher and can overheat! I still have two hubs and spokes at home doing exactly nothing.
Current Spinergy Price at Torpedo7 is $800 a pair.
Thus no experience in truing which has to be done with the tyre off: by holding the spoke end with a (supplied) little key and turning a self-lock nut by means of an ordinary socket. Achieving optimal spoke tension seems to me a dearing task!
The PBO spokes are round (not bladed) and thus the Spinergy wheel is less side wind 'self steering' than the Ksyrion. With the Ksyrions I can at times just loose all the confidence within a fast decent and that is not good in a race.
The Ksyrions have their little drawbacks too: You can't get a rim at a reasonable price; the urban myth/bullshit goes round that you are not supposed to re-use the Alu spokes, so Clarence street asked for $1500 to rebuild two wheels! Also the bush in the freewheel seems not to be entirely kosher and can overheat! I still have two hubs and spokes at home doing exactly nothing.
Current Spinergy Price at Torpedo7 is $800 a pair.
$1500 for a rebuild of Ksyriums at Clarence? They've got to be joking! A new set could be had for a lot less than that price. Maybe you should try some of the O/S mail-order places.
There's some talk suggesting that those PBO spokes give the wheels a "softer" ride. Any truth? Irrespective, it's a very interesting concept and glad that they are serving you well.
There's some talk suggesting that those PBO spokes give the wheels a "softer" ride. Any truth? Irrespective, it's a very interesting concept and glad that they are serving you well.
Yep, I think that Fred has pretty much summed it up.
I would say to go for a double walled rim, but if you are going deep section, then that is pretty much given.
It is possible to get the front wheel spoked radially, there isn't as much weight up front so you can get away with it.
James
I would say to go for a double walled rim, but if you are going deep section, then that is pretty much given.
It is possible to get the front wheel spoked radially, there isn't as much weight up front so you can get away with it.
James
Don't know if you've noticed, despite all the wheelbuilding wisdom against radial spoking for the rear drive side spoke arrangement, Ksyriums have exactly that on their rear wheel, yet still earns that "bomb proof" credential from its users. Weird isn't it?It is possible to get the front wheel spoked radially, there isn't as much weight up front so you can get away with it.
You can't use full radial spoking on any drive wheel. However, if you look at Ksyriums, one side of the wheel is standard spoking, while the other is radial. My Zondas are the same.
From memory, the cassette side of the Zondas are normal spoking (i.e. non-radial) and the non-cassette side is radial. Mavics are often the other way around.
James
From memory, the cassette side of the Zondas are normal spoking (i.e. non-radial) and the non-cassette side is radial. Mavics are often the other way around.
James
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mikesbytes
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I've never understood why some wheels have any radial spoking on the rear.
Why not if there's no reliability and performance issues with that specific product? Under that premise, the wheel can be made lighter and more aero.I've never understood why some wheels have any radial spoking on the rear.
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Eugen Schilter
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Compare - for exactly the same rim and hub - radial lacing with tangential lacking: The 'tangential' spokes need to be longer, needn't they? A little trigonometry (or a sketch on paper) will show you that the longer the spoke the lesser is the angle of the dish; to be precice sine (da) is inversely proportional to spoke length. Radial lacing thus gives the maximum possible dishing angle and that is most critical on the drive side of a 10 speed wheel.
The trade off is that 100% of the drive torque has to go though the hub and then through the non-drive side spokes alone. This reduces the torque stiffness of the wheel.
On the whole I like drive side radial lacing. However, carbon spokes lack the tension stiffness of their metal mates and thus the Spinergy is laced tangential on both sides.
The trade off is that 100% of the drive torque has to go though the hub and then through the non-drive side spokes alone. This reduces the torque stiffness of the wheel.
On the whole I like drive side radial lacing. However, carbon spokes lack the tension stiffness of their metal mates and thus the Spinergy is laced tangential on both sides.
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Eugen Schilter
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Indeed I feel very comfortable on the spinergy wheels. But I cannot say that the effect is so dramatic as when going from a steel frame to a carbon frame.There's some talk suggesting that those PBO spokes give the wheels a "softer" ride. Any truth? .
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Eugen Schilter
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Yes it's steep; I then bought a new pair from Probikit and this is why I have now two legacy hubs, spokes and buckled rim under my house.$1500 for a rebuild of Ksyriums at Clarence? They've got to be joking! .
Thanks Eugene for the trig refresher. I needed that.
I guess that at the end of the day, a good wheel is a good wheel. If it happens to not being laced to one's theoretical preference, who cares.
I guess that at the end of the day, a good wheel is a good wheel. If it happens to not being laced to one's theoretical preference, who cares.
part of the $1,500 is the cost of the spokes, I know that Mavic Ksyriums have a spoke cost of $10 each. When I got my Zonda wheel rebuilt in Lakes Entrance, it cost $150 just for the spokes. If had the aero style (flat blade) then it was about $250 for the spokes. This was for an entire spoke set for the wheels though, so I have plenty of spares now.
Even so, $1,500 for a complete wheel rebuild seems insane, most shops only charge about $80 + parts for a wheel rebuild.
James
Even so, $1,500 for a complete wheel rebuild seems insane, most shops only charge about $80 + parts for a wheel rebuild.
James
Surely there are alternative options than Clarence St for the rebuild. Might be worth sourcing the parts from O/S too.
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mikesbytes
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At $1,500 I'd go to TWE
BTW Eugene, if you don't want those hubs, you could donate them to Lindsay for one of the projects.
BTW Eugene, if you don't want those hubs, you could donate them to Lindsay for one of the projects.
Those hubs use proprietary Mavic spokes. So unless you are willing to source those spokes (and possibly rim too), then they are dead duck.BTW Eugene, if you don't want those hubs, you could donate them to Lindsay for one of the projects.
The other question is, when does a wheel requires a complete rebuild? Shouldn't be that common, right?
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mikesbytes
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Basically when the rim has had it
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Eugen Schilter
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The $1500 was for rims, spokes and labour.
Eventhough, don't you still think there's something wrong with the pricing? For $1500, one can pick up a new set of K-ES at a local Australian store. So why would anyone bother to rebuild? I guess that's what they want you to do anyway, buy a new set and throw away the old.The $1500 was for rims, spokes and labour.
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