EPO/Drugs Update forum

[geoff m]

Probably time to set up a breaking drug scandal thread....

Here's the first discussion, with many to follow:


Tour de France News Flash, July 17, 2008

Edited by Hedwig Kröner

Riccò positive

Taken into police custody

Italian rider Riccardo Riccò of Saunier Duval has tested positive for blood booster Erythropoietin (EPO), French sports daily L'Equipe reported on their website on Thursday. According to the paper's Damien Ressiot, one of the climber's urine samples collected by the French Anti-Doping Agency AFLD showed traces of a third generation EPO called CERA (Continuous Erythropoietin Receptor Activator).

Riccò, who won two stages in the Tour de France (the sixth and ninth), was ninth on general classification before the news broke on Thursday morning. The Italian's impressive performances have in the past been explained by his naturally high hematocrit level.

The Italian from Spanish team Saunier Duval was part of a targeted group of riders. Since the start of the race in Brest, the AFLD performed numerous anti-doping tests on him, at least four according to L'Equipe.

Riccò will not continue the race. This morning at the start of stage 12 from Lavelanet to Narbonne, he was taken from his team bus into a team car, which drove away. Cyclingnews' Gregor Brown confirmed that the Italian was taken into police custody for questioning.

Cyclingews will update this Newsflash as the story unfolds.

[T-Bone]

I don't like Ricco anymore

[Huw]

Aaarrrghghhh!! I can't believe it!

[Huw]

I read in RIDE that he had shown elevated hematocrit since being tested at a cyclocross youth event. And that Ricco, along with Cunego (who appeared to exhibit a similar condition) were under special surveillance.

???

Dammit, I really quite like Ricco. He was like a ... like a ... a cobra.

Now I guess he's more like a legless lizard?

[T-Bone]

Exactly, i liked his attacking style, but if he's cheated, then he loses all respect, only gaining a little if he actually admits to having cheated rather than the american way of going to court for years. He could be jailed and fined as well....

[Huw]

I was surprised at the jail and fine; maxima of 5 years and €75, 000, from what Liggett and Sherwin were saying just now. Hadn't heard about them before.

I still suspect those penalties aren't close to being a deterrent for the huge money and fame that being at the top (like Ricco) would bring.

[Huw]

Hadn't heard about them before.

I mean the money and the time.

Of course I've heard of Liggett and Sherwin - they're those two goofy detectives from that Austrian cop show, right?

[Simon Llewellyn]

The irony is, just like his idol Marco Pantani his downfall too will be drugs. pantani was outwardly spoken about EPO use in the peleton not knowing why he was getting harrassed when everydody was on it and it was common knowledge.

But I've got to say Ricco is a fantastic bike rider, shame that he had to to cheat and get caught... Great for Evans though, that takes alot of power out of the Saneur Dival influence and makes the races tactically much easier..

[jimmy]

I think that the gaol term is related to a particular crime in France or Italy of Sporting Fraud.

I actually came here to post into the "Tactics" post, about Ricco not going to be going for GC now.

Also, what do all of these riders have in common?

Tyler Hammilton
Roberto Heras
Floyd Landis
Manual 'Triki' Beltran

James

[jimmy]

I think that these three pictures show a pretty interesting story...

Ricco Wins Stage 9

Piepoli Wins Stage 10, Ricco 2nd

Frank Schleck, after being droped by Ricco and Piepoli on Stage 10

Both of the Saunier Duval-Scott riders look pretty fresh, but Schleck looks like he is ready to blow a gasket. I know that Piepoli hasn't tested positive, but those pictures give me a small suspicion alone. Look at Stage 16 in last years tour, Rasmussen finished and looked like he wasn't even trying, while Cadel, who finished fourth, had to wait 10 minutes before he could speak to the media.

James

[weiyun]

But I've got to say Ricco is a fantastic bike rider...

How do you equate "drug cheat" and "fantastic rider"? Maybe without the drug, he will no longer be fantastic. No?

[weiyun]

Both of the Saunier Duval-Scott riders look pretty fresh, but Schleck looks like he is ready to blow a gasket. I know that Piepoli hasn't tested positive...

Maybe those guys didn't get tested prior but would have after their podium. In any case, Saunier Duval is out of the tour now.

I wonder if they'll get banned next year?

[jimmy]

As Ricco has tested positive, you can pretty much guarantee that he will get a suspension.

Piepoli would have been tested as he won Stage 10. Do we know which stage Ricco was busted on? He won Stage 6 and 9, so it is possible that he has only been busted on Stage 6 at this point. Which means that Piepoli's sample hasn't been fully analysed yet.

At this stage though, Piepoli hasn't tested positive, so we have to assume that he is clean.

James

[mikesbytes]

I wonder if they'll get banned next year?

Traditionally the ban was 2 years, is this still the case?

[Stuart]

Piepoli would have been tested as he won Stage 10. Do we know which stage Ricco was busted on? He won Stage 6 and 9, so it is possible that he has only been busted on Stage 6 at this point. Which means that Piepoli's sample hasn't been fully analysed yet. James

It seems the test was from stage 4
"His positive test for the banned blood booster erythropoietin (EPO) was confirmed by the French national anti-doping agency (AFLD), which is carrying out all tests on the Tour as the race is being held under the auspices of the French federation.
The 24-year-old Ricco provided a urine sample which also contained the banned substance CERA (Continuous Erythropietin Receptor Activator) after the fourth stage, a 29.5 km time-trial at Cholet"

Ricco Test Positive - SBS

He really had looked too good to be true the way he was attacking on the climbs. It's a pity though that as soon as somebody does attack and win like that, my immediate thought is that they are dirty.

[weiyun]

As Ricco has tested positive, you can pretty much guarantee that he will get a suspension.

Sorry, I wasn't too clear earlier. I was wondering whether Saunier Duval would get banned at next year's tour, similar to what happened to Astana.

Yes, Ricco's sample originated after Stage 4's ITT. As you'd expect, there would be a delay of a few days before the result can be returned.

What's interesting is, given this present series of busts and timing proximity, I wonder how it'll affect the Olympics? If there was a perception by dopers and quacks up till now that CERA could not be detected, then this present event some 3 weeks away may just cause some "form slumps" for those intending dopers.

[weiyun]

It's a pity though that as soon as somebody does attack and win like that, my immediate thought is that they are dirty.

Especially when it's "Ricco who"?

[timyone]

Also, what do all of these riders have in common?

Tyler Hammilton
Roberto Heras
Floyd Landis
Manual 'Triki' Beltran

James

? they have james in common?


Hey is rico the lad that flew past them all up the hill like they were standing still?

[T-Bone]

? they have james in common?


Hey is rico the lad that flew past them all up the hill like they were standing still?

Nope, they're all former teammates of Lance.

and yes, that's Ricco.

[jimmy]

Nope, they're all former teammates of Lance.

Yes, and....

There is something else, but it is pretty obvious (given the topic this is in).

James

[Stuart]

Yes, and....
There is something else, but it is pretty obvious (given the topic this is in).

They've all been busted for EPO doping & they all rode with Lance

[geoff m]

OK guys,

The above seem to be facts about who they have ridden with previously. Let's leave this at a facts based discussion.

This is a public forum site open to all.

[jimmy]

Geoff

I see your point, but the facts remain, those 4 riders have been busted for EPO and are former team mates of Lance.

Does that make Lance a Doper and a Cheater? No, but it does make you question his cleanliness.

James

[Simon Llewellyn]

Geoff

I see your point, but the facts remain, those 4 riders have been busted for EPO and are former team mates of Lance.

Does that make Lance a Doper and a Cheater? No, but it does make you question his cleanliness.

James

You've got to take into account James that Armstrong is a bit of a freak, in the 2003 tour basically all of the top 6 riders finishing behind Armstrong got some sort of suspension or were not allowed to race due to a 'black cloud' over their name following the fuentes episode for using drugs in the preceding 12 months and Armstrong beat them all convincingly yet remains clean....

[weiyun]

Armstrong is also an American. It's well known that those startup biotech shops in Cali always have some special ingredients.

[Adrian E]

On the lighter side of things, I saw this song film clip on BikeSnob this morning. Its the EPO song. Man, it just makes me want to get some.

Anyone speak spanish?

And check out http://www.epotour.fr/

[wallman]

Anyone speak spanish?

Enough to know that the song is in French!

[Adrian E]

I think the song has both French and Spanish in it. "Te quireo" is Spanish for "I love you"

Here is a translation of the lyrics.

Hi, dom Pedro
Si ?
What is your secret for being so fast ?
You would really like to know, wouldn’t you ?
It is an “especial” potion.
Let me tell you about it ….

1,2,3
EPO te quiero (EPO I love you)
Thanks to you , I’ll be “numero uno” (number 1)
EPO te quiero
Thanks to you, I’ll have the most beautiful of the jerseys.

On the roads of France,
I take advantage of the beautiful day.
I musn’t make too much effort
If I want to win the Tour.
I ride along on my bicycle
Without effort or complexity.
Far ahead of the peloton,
I’m humming this song.

EPO te quiero
Thanks to you , I’ll be “numero uno”
EPO te quiero
Thanks to you, I’m going faster than ? (a tornado or Don Lado).

When I have a little pump strike (I feel drained)
On my bike
I stop beside a field
Of poppies
So I extract from my flask
EPO
An good old medicine

And when comes the end of the stage,
I’m hailed as a hero.
Bravo, Bravo
The champagne, I don’t give a damn about it.
I prefer my EPO.

EPO te quiero
Thanks to you , I’ll be “numero uno”
EPO te quiero
Thanks to you, I’ll have the most beautiful of the jerseys.

Your attention ! Everyone into the saddles!
Each morning, with EPO, get a leg up.
A product of ours the whole world envies.
For you and your bicycle, EPO is what you need.
Thanks to you my EPO.

EPO te quiero
Thanks to you , I’ll be “numero uno”
EPO te quiero
Thanks to you, I’ll have the most beautiful of the jerseys.

I’ll be cuter than Laurent Fignon,
Stronger than Poulidor
And far crazier than Virenque,
And more handsome than Bernard Hinault.
Thanks to you, my EPO.

My PP, my PO, my PP, my EPO,
My PP, my PO, my PP, my EPO,
EPOooooooooooo