Seeking thoughts on gear options for the Grafton.
I'm currently running 53-39 chainrings with an 11-23 rear cluster, and decided on the weekend (while riding the steep side of Audley weir) that this just doesn't give me low enough gears on the hills. If I'm gonna survive the Grafton, I think I need to increase the low gear options on my bike.
So, to other Grafton riders, what gearing are you considering for the race?
I'm thinking about the $179 compact Shimano crankset from Cell, possibly also combined with an 11-25 rear cassette. Apparently I can keep my current Ultegra front derailleur, but does anyone know whether I would need a longer-cage rear if I was to use this setup?
Finally, are there other options that might be better? FSA? And where would you get the stuff from?
Gearing up for the Grafton
Why don't you just opt for a cassette with a wider range? A 12-27 cassette with regular double would give you almost the same low gearing as a CT/12-25 combo apart from the very last gear (ie. You'll have 39 inches vs 36.7 inches on the CT). It'll be far easier to swap too.
I am surprised that you won't have to change for a CT specific FD.
I am surprised that you won't have to change for a CT specific FD.
That's a good point, Weiyun. This looks like it'd be the cheapest way to get a lower gear (as long as I don't have to get a longer-cage rear derailleur!).
I stuck this graph together to compare the gear options I was thinking about. Essentially, a different cassette is a better option than a new crankset. Put them both together, and you get an extra 5 inches less (than by changing the cassette). I wonder how crucial this 5 inches would be? I wonder how much I'd be willing to part with on the day to get it?
The graphs consider only the smallest chainring, either a 39T (regular) or 34T (compact), and show gear inches resulting from combination with either my current 11-23T sprockets, or a set of 12-27T sprockets.
I stuck this graph together to compare the gear options I was thinking about. Essentially, a different cassette is a better option than a new crankset. Put them both together, and you get an extra 5 inches less (than by changing the cassette). I wonder how crucial this 5 inches would be? I wonder how much I'd be willing to part with on the day to get it?
The graphs consider only the smallest chainring, either a 39T (regular) or 34T (compact), and show gear inches resulting from combination with either my current 11-23T sprockets, or a set of 12-27T sprockets.
I went through this exercise not too long ago for my Ridley build. At least with the Campagnolo RD, the short version can handle all cassettes below 13-29. You should check Shimano's spec though. The other issue may be the chain length, especially if your present chain is set at it's shortest possible length for 11-23.That's a good point, Weiyun. This looks like it'd be the cheapest way to get a lower gear (as long as I don't have to get a longer-cage rear derailleur!).
Do you have a MTB with low gears? Worth trying them out. CT would allow you to spin more with even greater gearing options when paired with 12-27 and beyond. But I doubt you'll need them given your strength.
The other issue to consider is whether you are going to be happy with CT. Some people talk about dropped chains etc due to the greater jump b/n the chainrings. On my Ridley build, the CT chainrings shifts very fast with no problems to date. Although it doesn't like extreme cross-chaining eg. Small-small. I would suggest that you check to make sure your FD pairs well with your proposed CT crankset.
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mikesbytes
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What gradient do you need to climb?
I had this worry when I did it early in the year. From memory its around a 7% graident with no real jumps. its a very steady climb all the way up and is not as steep as the hill after Audely Weir. I did it on my granny which I think was 42/25. I found that cilmbed comfortably in the saddle in this gear and would even put it up a gear when I stood up. Honestly I think you'll be fine with the current gearing.
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Grant Bond
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Ill be running my triple...but I am officially soft.
I don't think you need to worry at all. Gibralter range isn't too steep, probably 5-6% average, and i don't remember it getting much over 7%. While Audley gets up to 12% which is a big difference.
I think i was riding up the hill in 39-19 last year, but if you're really concerned i'd go for the cheap option and get a 11-25 cassette (12-27 isn't needed), as you definitely won't need a compact crankset.
I'll try to find the course profile for you.
I think i was riding up the hill in 39-19 last year, but if you're really concerned i'd go for the cheap option and get a 11-25 cassette (12-27 isn't needed), as you definitely won't need a compact crankset.
I'll try to find the course profile for you.
OK, now I'm home I checked my bike. I actually have 11-25T sprockets already, not 11-23T as I thought.
Perhaps I'll be fine. Perhaps not . . .
I sure would like some lower gears for local rides, though!
Perhaps I'll be fine. Perhaps not . . .
I sure would like some lower gears for local rides, though!
There's a course profile here http://www.nsw.cycling.org.au/Files/Rac ... itions.pdf just go to the page 6. Gibralter is 5.7% average. There are some steeper climbs, though they're not long enough to worry too much about.
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mikesbytes
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Real men have triples, but don't use the grannymost look down on me for this sort of view, but I say,
TRIPLE IS THE WAY TO GO
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Grant Bond
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Mate I say if you have got them use them..Triples are great for a bail out gear.
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Simon Llewellyn
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I must agree, & not even just to bail out, if you can spin a higher cadence than the man in front of you then you'll be saving strength...
I don't think you're really saving strength. People are just most efficient at different cadences to each other. Higher cadence does make it a bit easier to accelerate on a climb. I find on a lot of climbs i don't even drop into my 39-23, so for me that's a low enough bail out unless my legs seize with cramps.
I do prefer having lower gears to spin up climbs - I definitely find that a more "pleasant" way to do it than totally mashing out. All that mashing just ends up as acid interference/damage in the muscles which I find takes its toll over a long ride.
Have made the decision to stick with the current gear setup. Pretty happy not to have to go through the schemozzle of buying CT cranksets etc. Thanks for all the input everyone!
Have made the decision to stick with the current gear setup. Pretty happy not to have to go through the schemozzle of buying CT cranksets etc. Thanks for all the input everyone!
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Eugen Schilter
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There is a good old fashioned profile on the official Cycling NSW Grafton race information. At the bottom click on ‘Race Map’. If you can’t find it drop me a one liner and I will email you a copy. It is essential to study it thoroughly.
The Gibraltar climb is average 5.8% and max 7.0%; thus it is not steep but is a steady 16.5km uphill.
The bunch is very crowded before the climb and I have seen falls. Try to avoid having to hit the brakes when going up; be a miser with your energy.
It’s a good idea and you will find other riders will have a leak at approx km65.
1st feed station (km70) is better not used. It is immediately before the climb. You must not eat then, cannot eat on the uphill and cannot afford to carry stuff up the hill, so why take supplies? It is also outright dangerous with that sort of rider numbers then. Why stress yourself all along and possibly find yourself at the back of the field when the climb starts? Better concentrate on the task ahead. By not feeding I reach the bottom of the climb relaxed at the front of the bunch. I have only a disposable water bottle (mainly for dousing) with me which I dump half way up. 5k after the summit you get re-stocked with water at the neutral water station, no drama.
Stick to a group as long as practicable. I alternate between standing and sitting. It is best for your muscles. I also find it impresses my co riders and makes me feel good every time a can sit down and hit them hard when they thought I’ve had it! But eventually, and before you collapse, let the group go and do it on your own.
Now you are the driver! Do not get slow because other riders are slow. When on my own I count the strokes: 30 standing , 40 sitting and so on; this prevents me from drifting, gives me a sense of achievement, an incentive to accelerate and blocks the influence of the riders I overtake.
The end of climb is a 300m long straight at 7%. From memory there is no sign but you will see spectators. Do not overdo now because most likely it is not wise to take a rest right at the top. [many Grafton riders are so happy they made it to the top that they want a big rest after the crest] Too often the plot is not lost on the uphill but you loose because you pressed so hard that you cannot accelerate after cresting.
Only if riders come fast from behind you wait to join them. Most likely however the rider behind you is more shot than you and, worse, not in the mood to work. From your standing/sitting style you are used to change in rhythm and most likely now is the time to do it again. Build speed quickly and you are likely to find allies in front of you. Then you have a rest, shake your legs and get your water. Then you are ready to do it all over again on the first (and hardest) climb on the plateau. After that the race normally settles down, the feed station comes and you have time to eat and drink you favourite.
I use only the second feed station to stock up. Many riders like to be pampered but I find it more empowering to be self contained. To be dependent on feed also leaves your mind exposed to doubt and such worries eat away from the aggression you need so badly.
The Glen Innes feed station is not ideal because, again, you cannot eat because in just 10km is the last ‘big’ hill.
You should spend all that is left in your tank by km 223; the last 5ks are just coasting down.
The Grafton is to a great deal a metal exercise. The long distance on the plateau makes you loose focus, invites you to daydream and to forget what you have come here for. It happened to me that riders rode away from me I didn’t even care! Possibly caffeine could be of benefit to combat this.
The method to have something left in the tank towards the end is, of course, not to spend it at the beginning. How? Well if in the bunch do not close holes but let others overtake you to close it. Next time they all hit the brakes, don’t, and with little effort you make good lost places.
Cheers, Eugen
The Gibraltar climb is average 5.8% and max 7.0%; thus it is not steep but is a steady 16.5km uphill.
The bunch is very crowded before the climb and I have seen falls. Try to avoid having to hit the brakes when going up; be a miser with your energy.
It’s a good idea and you will find other riders will have a leak at approx km65.
1st feed station (km70) is better not used. It is immediately before the climb. You must not eat then, cannot eat on the uphill and cannot afford to carry stuff up the hill, so why take supplies? It is also outright dangerous with that sort of rider numbers then. Why stress yourself all along and possibly find yourself at the back of the field when the climb starts? Better concentrate on the task ahead. By not feeding I reach the bottom of the climb relaxed at the front of the bunch. I have only a disposable water bottle (mainly for dousing) with me which I dump half way up. 5k after the summit you get re-stocked with water at the neutral water station, no drama.
Stick to a group as long as practicable. I alternate between standing and sitting. It is best for your muscles. I also find it impresses my co riders and makes me feel good every time a can sit down and hit them hard when they thought I’ve had it! But eventually, and before you collapse, let the group go and do it on your own.
Now you are the driver! Do not get slow because other riders are slow. When on my own I count the strokes: 30 standing , 40 sitting and so on; this prevents me from drifting, gives me a sense of achievement, an incentive to accelerate and blocks the influence of the riders I overtake.
The end of climb is a 300m long straight at 7%. From memory there is no sign but you will see spectators. Do not overdo now because most likely it is not wise to take a rest right at the top. [many Grafton riders are so happy they made it to the top that they want a big rest after the crest] Too often the plot is not lost on the uphill but you loose because you pressed so hard that you cannot accelerate after cresting.
Only if riders come fast from behind you wait to join them. Most likely however the rider behind you is more shot than you and, worse, not in the mood to work. From your standing/sitting style you are used to change in rhythm and most likely now is the time to do it again. Build speed quickly and you are likely to find allies in front of you. Then you have a rest, shake your legs and get your water. Then you are ready to do it all over again on the first (and hardest) climb on the plateau. After that the race normally settles down, the feed station comes and you have time to eat and drink you favourite.
I use only the second feed station to stock up. Many riders like to be pampered but I find it more empowering to be self contained. To be dependent on feed also leaves your mind exposed to doubt and such worries eat away from the aggression you need so badly.
The Glen Innes feed station is not ideal because, again, you cannot eat because in just 10km is the last ‘big’ hill.
You should spend all that is left in your tank by km 223; the last 5ks are just coasting down.
The Grafton is to a great deal a metal exercise. The long distance on the plateau makes you loose focus, invites you to daydream and to forget what you have come here for. It happened to me that riders rode away from me I didn’t even care! Possibly caffeine could be of benefit to combat this.
The method to have something left in the tank towards the end is, of course, not to spend it at the beginning. How? Well if in the bunch do not close holes but let others overtake you to close it. Next time they all hit the brakes, don’t, and with little effort you make good lost places.
Cheers, Eugen
Link for the map is earlier in this topic.
Good advice from Eugen.
I'm planning to skip the first feed station as well, unless it's a really hot day in which case i may grab a bottle of water to pour mostly over my head.
In previous years, although i wasn't too prepared, i found myself behind after the first feed, and last year it probably helped ruin me having the bunch 100m in front of me causing me to settle into too high a rhythm as i caught them and then felt comfortable enough to continue past and destroy myself. Though an unexplained soreness in my lateral right foot also helped me to give up. I still need to work out what is causing the pain, but i seemed to cope alright on Tuesdays long ride.
My main feed stations will be the second and third, though i haven't calculated how much i'll need at the third. The last feed station being so close to the finish i may just get a bidon full of coke to give me a bit of a kick.
Good advice from Eugen.
I'm planning to skip the first feed station as well, unless it's a really hot day in which case i may grab a bottle of water to pour mostly over my head.
In previous years, although i wasn't too prepared, i found myself behind after the first feed, and last year it probably helped ruin me having the bunch 100m in front of me causing me to settle into too high a rhythm as i caught them and then felt comfortable enough to continue past and destroy myself. Though an unexplained soreness in my lateral right foot also helped me to give up. I still need to work out what is causing the pain, but i seemed to cope alright on Tuesdays long ride.
My main feed stations will be the second and third, though i haven't calculated how much i'll need at the third. The last feed station being so close to the finish i may just get a bidon full of coke to give me a bit of a kick.
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Eugen Schilter
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Today (Mo 3Sep) I have entered two teams for our Club; seven DHBC riders plus Phil Scheidegger to boost our chances.
I fork out the first $50. About the second $50 we'll have to talk.
If we all finish we are in with two bids for the $500 win.
I fork out the first $50. About the second $50 we'll have to talk.
If we all finish we are in with two bids for the $500 win.
Thanks for organising the teams Eugen, and glad to hear Phil was able to be utilised. I can put in $20 or so, or we can split the whole amount evenly with everyone willing to chip in.
I'm feeling confident about riding well, as i've been in a reasonable condition following my longer rides. Just hoping the weather is good for a last long ride or 2 on the weekend.
I'm feeling confident about riding well, as i've been in a reasonable condition following my longer rides. Just hoping the weather is good for a last long ride or 2 on the weekend.
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Simon Llewellyn
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Gees Eugen you called us the 'SLOW' team?!! I resent that, you guys could be in for a whooping... I will motivate my boys & even though we plan to ride together that doesn't mean we have to go slowly... For every uphill there is a downhill & the other day when we went to Wollongong we were traveling between 3-5kms/hr faster on the flat when I was on the front...
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Simon Llewellyn
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On second thoughts, we'll probably ride fast till we find an ice cream shop....
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Simon Llewellyn
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Yeh yeh, I know why we were put in the same team!!!!
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Eugen Schilter
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I did ask for:
Dulwich Hill BC fasties
Dulwich Hill BC slowies.
Hence, since Brian Crawford stuffed it up in the first place we should be entiteled to insist, if we want, to have it changed. Can we agree on something? ... the best/funniest/most impressing or politically correctest?
Dulwich Hill BC fasties
Dulwich Hill BC slowies.
Hence, since Brian Crawford stuffed it up in the first place we should be entiteled to insist, if we want, to have it changed. Can we agree on something? ... the best/funniest/most impressing or politically correctest?
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Simon Llewellyn
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I was just Joking with you Eugene the names are fine, I'm happy to label our team DHBC trackies or sprinters as grant suggested but probably trackies best suites. But could we steal Huw from your team & even it up at 4 & 4. For one thing Adrian is sick & it would just increase our odds of having 3 finish if one of us has a mishap on the road. I'm after Huw because he was joining as part of the autobus originally, I"m not sure where he is at now but that was his original intention. Also there may only be 3 teams starting C grade so if we all finish both teams will place, but we need 3 riders to finish from both...
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Eugen Schilter
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5/3 or 4/4?
My main reason to have Huw with the fasties was that quite possibly not the first two riders but the third rider will make the winning or loosing difference. Also the loss of one rider in the trackies team would have the only effect of not having the team on the finisher's list. This however should not eventuate because all three are committed to finish and thus, major injury/mishap excluded, should in fact finish (at whatever pace).
Can we leave it to Huw to tell us which team he wants to ride in?
Names?
What about
Dulwich Hill BC roadies
Dulwich Hill BC trackies?
My main reason to have Huw with the fasties was that quite possibly not the first two riders but the third rider will make the winning or loosing difference. Also the loss of one rider in the trackies team would have the only effect of not having the team on the finisher's list. This however should not eventuate because all three are committed to finish and thus, major injury/mishap excluded, should in fact finish (at whatever pace).
Can we leave it to Huw to tell us which team he wants to ride in?
Names?
What about
Dulwich Hill BC roadies
Dulwich Hill BC trackies?
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Simon Llewellyn
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The reality of team racing Eugene is it doesn't matter what times the first two riders clock, it's the third man who decides the team classification & that's my worry. I"m just abit concerned about Adrian's health. He's not training a week out so now that you've entered a team for us it would be devastating mentally to watch him have to pull out. I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Adrian will finish very well if he is in good health. He rode the course earlier in the year or last year in 8 hrs with panniers on his bike! He's a machine. But if we had Huw on our team as well we would have our team finish.
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Simon Llewellyn
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Trackies is good, for the name...
Huw is wanted man! Selga better watch out 
I'm not really fussed how the teams are divided, but I see Simon's point about the saftey of the 4/4 split. I havn't had a good preparation for the race and my main aim will just be to finish in the time provided.
I'm not really fussed how the teams are divided, but I see Simon's point about the saftey of the 4/4 split. I havn't had a good preparation for the race and my main aim will just be to finish in the time provided.
ok i dont normally come into this bit but i had a couple of pics from training for the grafton.
heres the secret ingrediant for success, which team dullwich hill will need to make that 220 km long slog!!!
[/img]
and heres an interesting picture of a pear and some cordial that i took.
I like the colors
im thinking that if we need a nice new dh emblem this could be it, the nice green and bright red.
And here is the hard slogging that goes along with the food and powerade.
heres the secret ingrediant for success, which team dullwich hill will need to make that 220 km long slog!!!
[/img]and heres an interesting picture of a pear and some cordial that i took.
I like the colors
im thinking that if we need a nice new dh emblem this could be it, the nice green and bright red.And here is the hard slogging that goes along with the food and powerade.
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Eugen Schilter
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If we take Huw out of the fast team we are compromising our chances to win. To gain ... what? 
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Simon Llewellyn
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Keep Huw in the FAST team if you believe it will be the difference between winning & losing. I'm just thinking that we may be able to take two out of the three placings if the other teams struggle to finish. Looking at the starting list it is probably unlikely & your probably right but my boys will definitely finish I have only ever failed to finish one race in my life which I was sick & I will be dragging the others with me. But at the end of the day this is just a fun event for me & Grant, I"m not going up there to win, neither is Grant. We're just doing it so we have something to talk about for the rest of our lives...
It just annoys me a bit that you I got the bulk of the 7 guys to enter this race & now you have entered two teams, called us the 'slowies' & stollen a rider who agreed to ride with us in the 'autobus.' If you had of just entered one team & let us do our thing I wouldn't care so much...
It just annoys me a bit that you I got the bulk of the 7 guys to enter this race & now you have entered two teams, called us the 'slowies' & stollen a rider who agreed to ride with us in the 'autobus.' If you had of just entered one team & let us do our thing I wouldn't care so much...
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Eugen Schilter
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I was of the understanding that there is only a price for the winner. Do you say that there is prices for 1, 2 and 3rd? 
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Simon Llewellyn
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Aaaa your right. I didn't notice that it's only A & B Grade that there's 2nd and 3rd prize Sweepstakes. Why did you bother entering a second team then? $50 for no reason? Keep Huw in your team....
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Simon Llewellyn
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But change our name to Trackies...
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mikesbytes
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LOL
Huw, isn't it great to be loved so much.
Huw, isn't it great to be loved so much.
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Grant Bond
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Tim!
Whilst being entirely accurate your photos dont tell the whole story
A few points -
first i need to defend the hard session we put in on Monday night. In those last two sprints i felt like every muscle in my legs was about to explode...i was pushing HARD maybe harder than I ever have...to the point where i felt dizzy when i got off the bike.
Rather than bludging in the stands as your photo shows Simon and I studying the teachings of our Track guru Mr Browne..you can tell its interesting because there is a glimmer in my eye and a smile on my face.
Brownie had some good advice for Grafton ..Start off with full pockets and keep eating and drinking from kilometer 1.
I recon Simon and i have trained pretty consitently leading in to Grafton...its showing in Simons flying 2 time and my improved endurance...We trackies will complete that bike race..and maybe surprise a few people on the way...Adrain is a gutsy rider...he has done the route before and i know he will give it a good crack.
I think the Trackies might even pull out a surprise and beat 1 or two of our roadie brothers home.
2) There are no secret weapons...persistance and dogged determination are what will get us home. In saying that I prefer Gatorade- Lemon Lime
3) I think the pear is good...but perhaps we should incorporate that cabbage that we all love so much.
Whilst being entirely accurate your photos dont tell the whole story
A few points -
first i need to defend the hard session we put in on Monday night. In those last two sprints i felt like every muscle in my legs was about to explode...i was pushing HARD maybe harder than I ever have...to the point where i felt dizzy when i got off the bike.
Rather than bludging in the stands as your photo shows Simon and I studying the teachings of our Track guru Mr Browne..you can tell its interesting because there is a glimmer in my eye and a smile on my face.
Brownie had some good advice for Grafton ..Start off with full pockets and keep eating and drinking from kilometer 1.
I recon Simon and i have trained pretty consitently leading in to Grafton...its showing in Simons flying 2 time and my improved endurance...We trackies will complete that bike race..and maybe surprise a few people on the way...Adrain is a gutsy rider...he has done the route before and i know he will give it a good crack.
I think the Trackies might even pull out a surprise and beat 1 or two of our roadie brothers home.
2) There are no secret weapons...persistance and dogged determination are what will get us home. In saying that I prefer Gatorade- Lemon Lime
3) I think the pear is good...but perhaps we should incorporate that cabbage that we all love so much.
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Simon Llewellyn
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I agree Grant I think we will be pretty solid...
This subject of teams just gets me so wound up. Theoretically it is simple to get a team into an event, you just find the number of guys needed & get them to enter & you go and compete. But the reality is finding four guys who are free on that day, aren't going to get sick or injured in the mean time then finding a late replacement is not that easy. Then you have to get them training, make sure they're following the right regime for the event. Designate the starting order/tactics and make sure no one is going to do anything studpid and destroy the team. It is very difficult to prepare a team mentally for such an event & Grafton is one of the most mental events on the calender. You guys may think it sounds fairly simple but at state level we'll be competing against a very high standard so we have to be ready for that. We still have three team events to organize in the upcoming season, the team time trial, the pursuit & the team sprint & there is a massive opportunity to win wheel races this year if we can get a few guys into the finals.
This subject of teams just gets me so wound up. Theoretically it is simple to get a team into an event, you just find the number of guys needed & get them to enter & you go and compete. But the reality is finding four guys who are free on that day, aren't going to get sick or injured in the mean time then finding a late replacement is not that easy. Then you have to get them training, make sure they're following the right regime for the event. Designate the starting order/tactics and make sure no one is going to do anything studpid and destroy the team. It is very difficult to prepare a team mentally for such an event & Grafton is one of the most mental events on the calender. You guys may think it sounds fairly simple but at state level we'll be competing against a very high standard so we have to be ready for that. We still have three team events to organize in the upcoming season, the team time trial, the pursuit & the team sprint & there is a massive opportunity to win wheel races this year if we can get a few guys into the finals.
Hi Guys,
Some of you might remember me. Moved up to Brisbane a couple of years ago, though I do pop in on one of your rides occassionally.
Anyway it's great to see that you guys will have such a strong presence at Grafton. One of Sydneys smallest club with the biggest turnout. Not bad, but that's Dulwich Hill boys for you! I'll be there this year with a bunch of buddies from my club in Brisbane (Balmoral), and guess what......we're gonna whip your behinds, so watch out!
I'd like to meet up to say hello either before or after. I imagine you'll all be at the post race function anyway.
And don't worry about the finishing. If you're trained up , motivated, eat and drink regularly you'll be right. O'h and here's a link to a little ride I managed last year in just over 8 hours (http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Ga ... -Tour-2006).
Pete
Some of you might remember me. Moved up to Brisbane a couple of years ago, though I do pop in on one of your rides occassionally.
Anyway it's great to see that you guys will have such a strong presence at Grafton. One of Sydneys smallest club with the biggest turnout. Not bad, but that's Dulwich Hill boys for you! I'll be there this year with a bunch of buddies from my club in Brisbane (Balmoral), and guess what......we're gonna whip your behinds, so watch out!
I'd like to meet up to say hello either before or after. I imagine you'll all be at the post race function anyway.
And don't worry about the finishing. If you're trained up , motivated, eat and drink regularly you'll be right. O'h and here's a link to a little ride I managed last year in just over 8 hours (http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Ga ... -Tour-2006).
Pete
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Grant Bond
- Posts: 113
- Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 21:28
I think you are right there Simon.
Teams always create an interesting dilema for any club...whos is in who is out...i think what we have done for Grafton here isnt such a problem but i think it is very dangerous territory, loaded with politics and division...whos on the inside and whos on the outside can often be determined more on relationships than on merit. We are all friends in this club and want to maintain that sense of comradeship...I will work as hard for any of my club mates in the big race if i am asked to.
I think people will commit to events as they see fit you have shown time after time that if you build the dream and romance they will come. ..and that if a selection must be made the riders should decide who rides by consensus. We must never create a situation in which a single person or small group decides who works for who in races. If we ever become that sort of club i for 1 will leave.
On the track and in the TTT i know we can put in some solid performances over the next few months...and get some good results. We need to build our TTT team in the next week- if you havent already.
I think its very important that we maintain focus on BOTH participation and competitiveness.
Teams always create an interesting dilema for any club...whos is in who is out...i think what we have done for Grafton here isnt such a problem but i think it is very dangerous territory, loaded with politics and division...whos on the inside and whos on the outside can often be determined more on relationships than on merit. We are all friends in this club and want to maintain that sense of comradeship...I will work as hard for any of my club mates in the big race if i am asked to.
I think people will commit to events as they see fit you have shown time after time that if you build the dream and romance they will come. ..and that if a selection must be made the riders should decide who rides by consensus. We must never create a situation in which a single person or small group decides who works for who in races. If we ever become that sort of club i for 1 will leave.
On the track and in the TTT i know we can put in some solid performances over the next few months...and get some good results. We need to build our TTT team in the next week- if you havent already.
I think its very important that we maintain focus on BOTH participation and competitiveness.
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Grant Bond
- Posts: 113
- Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 21:28
Peter,
good to hear from you...I would be pleased to share a post ride ale and catch up!
good to hear from you...I would be pleased to share a post ride ale and catch up!
Last edited by Grant Bond on 05 Sep 2007, 16:15, edited 1 time in total.
There is 2nd and 3rd Sweepstakes prizes for the C-Grade Team event.
You have to remember that Eugen took the initiative of putting the team entries in otherwise we would have missed out, or had to pay late entry fees. The other issue was initially we were only going to enter 1 team, and someone would have missed out, but then on the weekend we found out Joe Grasso was entering, and recruited Phil for the team, meaning 3 people would have missed out. There would have been issues with only one team entered in that case and the decision of who misses out.
If anyone wants to swap teams, then they need to say. I don't see how it will matter too much though as i thought the plan was for everyone to chip in for the entry and then split any winnings evenly. So far Eugen has paid the lot, and i've said i'll put in $20 or more if needed, with no mention of contribution from anyone else. I believe any winnings however should be used to cover the entries first before being split evenly.
As for the team names, we should probably just change them to 1 & 2, as simple is best, and doesn't infer anything about the team.
One other thing to remember. Grafton is really an individual race. The teams thing is just a bit of a bonus/novelty. You should really be concentrating on Finishing as well as you can.
You have to remember that Eugen took the initiative of putting the team entries in otherwise we would have missed out, or had to pay late entry fees. The other issue was initially we were only going to enter 1 team, and someone would have missed out, but then on the weekend we found out Joe Grasso was entering, and recruited Phil for the team, meaning 3 people would have missed out. There would have been issues with only one team entered in that case and the decision of who misses out.
If anyone wants to swap teams, then they need to say. I don't see how it will matter too much though as i thought the plan was for everyone to chip in for the entry and then split any winnings evenly. So far Eugen has paid the lot, and i've said i'll put in $20 or more if needed, with no mention of contribution from anyone else. I believe any winnings however should be used to cover the entries first before being split evenly.
As for the team names, we should probably just change them to 1 & 2, as simple is best, and doesn't infer anything about the team.
One other thing to remember. Grafton is really an individual race. The teams thing is just a bit of a bonus/novelty. You should really be concentrating on Finishing as well as you can.
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Grant Bond
- Posts: 113
- Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 21:28
CALM DOWN EVERYONE!
In my humble opinion this is getting out of hand.
Eugen did the right thing in placing two team entries..without his work we wouldnt have two teams to be trying to place people into. He had to make a call based on limited consultation because we hadnt the chance to all get our heads together in room to discuss the thing and come to a mutual agreement. Whats done is done now.
I think in a sense that the two teams thing was my idea as on Sunday Morning Eugen and I were trying to work out a way to fit 7 riders into a 5 man team- which just wasnt going to work. I would have personally been happy to sit the team thing out as well but i suggested a roadie team and a trackie team rather than the spreading the talent as Eugen had suggested.
James - Im certainly happy to pitch in my $12.50 for my part of the teams entry...i didnt say that before because it kind of goes without saying that i would do so. I think your idea of splitting the prize money is a good one and should calm things down a bit.
Simon- I know you were just having a joke but i think we need to think about having these discussions when we can see the smiles on each others faces from now on. I can understand your frustration with the numbers in Team 2 but im still confident that we can give it a really good crack.
The most important thing to remember here is that we will all be riding in the Dulwich Hill Jersey and having a lot of fun and maybe a lot of pain riding in one of Australias best one day races. Lets stop the pointless bickering...the teams situation is what it is...and focus all of our mental energy on our own self confidence and getting the headspace right to finish! Im totally in the zone at the moment...i KNOW within my self that this is achievable if im am calm and trust my planning and preparation
In my humble opinion this is getting out of hand.
Eugen did the right thing in placing two team entries..without his work we wouldnt have two teams to be trying to place people into. He had to make a call based on limited consultation because we hadnt the chance to all get our heads together in room to discuss the thing and come to a mutual agreement. Whats done is done now.
I think in a sense that the two teams thing was my idea as on Sunday Morning Eugen and I were trying to work out a way to fit 7 riders into a 5 man team- which just wasnt going to work. I would have personally been happy to sit the team thing out as well but i suggested a roadie team and a trackie team rather than the spreading the talent as Eugen had suggested.
James - Im certainly happy to pitch in my $12.50 for my part of the teams entry...i didnt say that before because it kind of goes without saying that i would do so. I think your idea of splitting the prize money is a good one and should calm things down a bit.
Simon- I know you were just having a joke but i think we need to think about having these discussions when we can see the smiles on each others faces from now on. I can understand your frustration with the numbers in Team 2 but im still confident that we can give it a really good crack.
The most important thing to remember here is that we will all be riding in the Dulwich Hill Jersey and having a lot of fun and maybe a lot of pain riding in one of Australias best one day races. Lets stop the pointless bickering...the teams situation is what it is...and focus all of our mental energy on our own self confidence and getting the headspace right to finish! Im totally in the zone at the moment...i KNOW within my self that this is achievable if im am calm and trust my planning and preparation
Now for the big questions. Any hints for how the heck we're supposed to make it over Waterloo Range??
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Grant Bond
- Posts: 113
- Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 21:28
Keep it simple...ride within your limits...and just slog it out brother you will be right.
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mikesbytes
- Posts: 6991
- Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 13:48
- Location: Tempe
- Contact:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7j1PgmMbug8Now for the big questions. Any hints for how the heck we're supposed to make it over Waterloo Range??
I've just had a brain wave....watch out everyone.
I've thought of a way to divide the teams into two names, without any inference of strong or weak, right or left, night or day.
It is in line with the club colours.
What about.....
.......drum roll......
The Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club Red Team
The Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club Black Team
What a stroke of brilliance!!!
By the way Peter, good to hear from you. Hopefully you will virtually appear on our Discussion Forum more often.
I've thought of a way to divide the teams into two names, without any inference of strong or weak, right or left, night or day.
It is in line with the club colours.
What about.....
.......drum roll......
The Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club Red Team
The Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club Black Team
What a stroke of brilliance!!!
By the way Peter, good to hear from you. Hopefully you will virtually appear on our Discussion Forum more often.
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Simon Llewellyn
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 22:31
- Location: Tempe Velodrome
Well we were at it again, more tough training at tempe! Huw decided to test his stomach capacity to show us how much food he'll be able to carry while I decided a preride rest was the best sort of training for Grafton. I though I may as well pratice recoverying because I"ll have to be good at it Sunday next week! Meanwhile Grant was practicing some rhythm in the background..
I just realized that the photo of Huw & Grant has Theo in the background, so I won't post it keeping with the juniors & photos rule but that's what they were up to according to the photo...
I just realized that the photo of Huw & Grant has Theo in the background, so I won't post it keeping with the juniors & photos rule but that's what they were up to according to the photo...
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Grant Bond
- Posts: 113
- Joined: 14 Mar 2007, 21:28
The good old use the club colours trick..good one Geffro...i should have rembered that from my under sevens soccer days...Dapto Yellow were the hot shots and I played for Dapto Blue. It was always one of the toughest grudge matches of the season...and we always got beaten by a massive margin..
So which colour is which team? Anybody care.
So which colour is which team? Anybody care.
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Eugen Schilter
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 20:05
- Location: Eastwood
- Contact:
The five of us this morning settled on the following team naming:
No 1 team: Dulwich Hill black
No 2 team: Dulwich Hill red
note: no BC ('Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club black' was deemed too much of a mouthfull; BC is quite superfloues since every rider is called up by the proper club name i.e. Dulwich Hill BC)
If you disagree strongly then object now.
No need to respond to this posting if you can live with this team naming.
I plan to advise Cycling NSW soon.
No 1 team: Dulwich Hill black
No 2 team: Dulwich Hill red
note: no BC ('Dulwich Hill Bicycle Club black' was deemed too much of a mouthfull; BC is quite superfloues since every rider is called up by the proper club name i.e. Dulwich Hill BC)
If you disagree strongly then object now.
No need to respond to this posting if you can live with this team naming.
I plan to advise Cycling NSW soon.
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Eugen Schilter
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 20:05
- Location: Eastwood
- Contact:
I bring this up again because when I made and justified the 5/3 option I was not aware that indeed the No2 team had a chance to win something even if behind No1 team.
Please let it be known now if you object to the existing 5/3 split
No need to comment if you can live with the 5/3 split.
Please let it be known now if you object to the existing 5/3 split
No need to comment if you can live with the 5/3 split.
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Simon Llewellyn
- Posts: 1532
- Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 22:31
- Location: Tempe Velodrome
Yeh that's cool Eugene, sorry for all the arguing I"ve had abit of an average week....
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Eugen Schilter
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 20:05
- Location: Eastwood
- Contact:
One outcome of out team naming stampede is the feeling that all of us want to give it the best shot, know the slog and are committed to face it until km228.
In the Grafton, every rider, even if riding at the front, can occasionally find himself in no-man’s-land among the gum trees. It is then decisive, for the chances of the team and your own, to remain assertive and not to cave in. OK, sometimes it is indeed better to wait, but - be honest with yourself - have a very good reason instead of doing it just because it is the easy way out. I recall from the past Graftons, that the groups after Gibraltar, to my dismay, were often growing in numbers from riders coming from the back. I even once asked such a rider (Ian Lovell) and he told me bluntly ‘(we or I ) just put the head down and pushed’.
This is important and applies too if your are in 4th team position as a front rider can easily fall back due to mechanical or else. Even in last team position you should make this your rule. I’d hate to hear after the race that you did not push because you thought it did not count
I’d love to give our novice riders some help if they find it temporary difficult to hold the bunch over the pre-Gibraltar crests. Unfortunately I probably can not as I must ride near the front. This is because there is a possibility, albeit small, that an early group is forming which would be a godsend.
In the Grafton, every rider, even if riding at the front, can occasionally find himself in no-man’s-land among the gum trees. It is then decisive, for the chances of the team and your own, to remain assertive and not to cave in. OK, sometimes it is indeed better to wait, but - be honest with yourself - have a very good reason instead of doing it just because it is the easy way out. I recall from the past Graftons, that the groups after Gibraltar, to my dismay, were often growing in numbers from riders coming from the back. I even once asked such a rider (Ian Lovell) and he told me bluntly ‘(we or I ) just put the head down and pushed’.
This is important and applies too if your are in 4th team position as a front rider can easily fall back due to mechanical or else. Even in last team position you should make this your rule. I’d hate to hear after the race that you did not push because you thought it did not count
I’d love to give our novice riders some help if they find it temporary difficult to hold the bunch over the pre-Gibraltar crests. Unfortunately I probably can not as I must ride near the front. This is because there is a possibility, albeit small, that an early group is forming which would be a godsend.
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Eugen Schilter
- Posts: 120
- Joined: 13 Nov 2006, 20:05
- Location: Eastwood
- Contact:
Still in Grafton mood. Here is a report from Kiernan Smithson LACC (7th C grade).
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I dunno when we got to the startline but it was early for me. There were 120 people in C grade alone. The race began and warren and I stayed about mid-field for the first 50km. With a bunch that size it was really annoying. After every downhill, the front of the bunch would naturally slowdown and everyone behind would be hitting the brakes. however communication was good and riders were aware that the bunch was slowing so there were no real incidents. a break went away at the start with Eugene from dullwich hill in it but no-one seemed to care too much.
At about 50kms all the old people stopped to take a natural break and i moved to the front 10 riders as i knew the feed station was at 70km then the "big hill" began. at the feed station i was about 30-40 riders back and sucessfully grabbed my feedbag and by the time i transferred all my food the main bunch was moving quick down the road. I put my head down and accelerated on the back and moved to the from 8 riders at the base of the mt gibraltar. I looked back and noticed that others wernt so lucky. The bunch had split into 2 as all those who stopped at the feed station were too far back to get to the bunch.
The "big hill" wasnt that big.. just very long. 17 km of climbing but the inverell guys set a nice pace. i looked back halfway up to see about 30 in our group and looked back again at the top to see less than 20. At the top I felt great but i knew the race had only just begun with 130km to go. Eugene and his small break took all the KOM points and we caught them after 20kms. We were swapping off turns now at a good pace and i was still feeling fresh but only thinking of finishing as 228kms is along way.
Then the race started going against me. Anthony and dad thought it would be a great idea to watch A-grade come through at the 70km feed station before moving to feed me in the next one. They didnt make it to the 118km feed and i was left with 2 muslibars and a Gel for the next 62kms to Glen Innes. At the next sprint i decided to sit in and a break away went with 3 inverell riders and a grafton dude. To make matters worse about half of our group was from inverell. I sat on the front trying to get everyone to help chase but inverell were pretty smart and had all their riders scattered in the bunch to stop people from rolling through. I did alot of work on the front and at one point we were closing in on the break but the wind was too strong to bridge the gap by myself.
I spent the next 60kms waiting until the road changed direction or the damn crosswind would simply go away. It never did and there was no shelter from trees either. going through glen innes i got my feed bag and fueled up on gels. I waited for a while doing the odd turn then I went off the front with some other guy. The inverell guys quickly got our wheel so i waited then rode off the front casually. They did nothing so I put my head down and went for it.. I got a good gap and the chasing bunch was out of sight in a short time but the wind was hard. I was beginning to think it was a bad idea until I saw the group in front. I hit a huge hill and by the time I reached the top the bunch behind was closing in on me with a few inverell guys on the front so I sat up and knew it would come down to a sprint.
The last 40kms was attack after attack but none succeded, but we had to chase alot. We flew through inverell and I was 3rd wheel pushing my huge 46 on the finishing straight. I saw some guys begin to sprint behind me and I went for it. I was going seriously fast. But as I got close to the line they were going faster and I got 3rd and 7th overall. oh and i also got youngest rider award
warren got held back at the first feed station but did awesome to finish about 23rd. He overtook heaps of people along mt gibraltar before losing sight of our bunch. we learnt that next year we should skip the first feed station and stay up the front.
----end report ---------
Our pre-Grafton discussion had it covered, hadn't it?
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I dunno when we got to the startline but it was early for me. There were 120 people in C grade alone. The race began and warren and I stayed about mid-field for the first 50km. With a bunch that size it was really annoying. After every downhill, the front of the bunch would naturally slowdown and everyone behind would be hitting the brakes. however communication was good and riders were aware that the bunch was slowing so there were no real incidents. a break went away at the start with Eugene from dullwich hill in it but no-one seemed to care too much.
At about 50kms all the old people stopped to take a natural break and i moved to the front 10 riders as i knew the feed station was at 70km then the "big hill" began. at the feed station i was about 30-40 riders back and sucessfully grabbed my feedbag and by the time i transferred all my food the main bunch was moving quick down the road. I put my head down and accelerated on the back and moved to the from 8 riders at the base of the mt gibraltar. I looked back and noticed that others wernt so lucky. The bunch had split into 2 as all those who stopped at the feed station were too far back to get to the bunch.
The "big hill" wasnt that big.. just very long. 17 km of climbing but the inverell guys set a nice pace. i looked back halfway up to see about 30 in our group and looked back again at the top to see less than 20. At the top I felt great but i knew the race had only just begun with 130km to go. Eugene and his small break took all the KOM points and we caught them after 20kms. We were swapping off turns now at a good pace and i was still feeling fresh but only thinking of finishing as 228kms is along way.
Then the race started going against me. Anthony and dad thought it would be a great idea to watch A-grade come through at the 70km feed station before moving to feed me in the next one. They didnt make it to the 118km feed and i was left with 2 muslibars and a Gel for the next 62kms to Glen Innes. At the next sprint i decided to sit in and a break away went with 3 inverell riders and a grafton dude. To make matters worse about half of our group was from inverell. I sat on the front trying to get everyone to help chase but inverell were pretty smart and had all their riders scattered in the bunch to stop people from rolling through. I did alot of work on the front and at one point we were closing in on the break but the wind was too strong to bridge the gap by myself.
I spent the next 60kms waiting until the road changed direction or the damn crosswind would simply go away. It never did and there was no shelter from trees either. going through glen innes i got my feed bag and fueled up on gels. I waited for a while doing the odd turn then I went off the front with some other guy. The inverell guys quickly got our wheel so i waited then rode off the front casually. They did nothing so I put my head down and went for it.. I got a good gap and the chasing bunch was out of sight in a short time but the wind was hard. I was beginning to think it was a bad idea until I saw the group in front. I hit a huge hill and by the time I reached the top the bunch behind was closing in on me with a few inverell guys on the front so I sat up and knew it would come down to a sprint.
The last 40kms was attack after attack but none succeded, but we had to chase alot. We flew through inverell and I was 3rd wheel pushing my huge 46 on the finishing straight. I saw some guys begin to sprint behind me and I went for it. I was going seriously fast. But as I got close to the line they were going faster and I got 3rd and 7th overall. oh and i also got youngest rider award
warren got held back at the first feed station but did awesome to finish about 23rd. He overtook heaps of people along mt gibraltar before losing sight of our bunch. we learnt that next year we should skip the first feed station and stay up the front.
----end report ---------
Our pre-Grafton discussion had it covered, hadn't it?
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